slownrusty Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) So I have to vent....Nothing like getting your excitement deflated from the feeling of being ripped off by dishonest people. I took my 280ZX rear bumper to a Body Shop today and they quoted me $600 to re-paint it. I just about fainted.... This bumper has no damage and just old paint, which is why I wanted to freshen it up with some new paint. I could probably screw it up 8+ times and still come out ahead. So this has motivated me to tackle painting it at home. Can you guys who have done this please give me an idea of everything I need (recommended type of paint gun and what special primer / paint do I need for the flexible \ plastic bumper skin). I have a 2.5hp 21Gallon 125psi air compressor. Edit: Would you recommend this paint gun from harbor Freight? http://www.harborfreight.com/professional-automotive-hvlp-spray-gun-kit-94572.html Many thanks! Yasin Edited December 6, 2011 by slownrusty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swervey McZCar Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 So I have to vent....Nothing like getting your excitement deflated from the feeling of being ripped off by dishonest people. I took my 280ZX rear bumper to a Body Shop today and they quoted me $600 to re-paint it. I just about fainted.... This bumper has no damage and just old paint, which is why I wanted to freshen it up with some new paint. I could probably screw it up 8+ times and still come out ahead. So this has motivated me to tackle painting it at home. Can you guys who have done this please give me an idea of everything I need (recommended type of paint gun and what special primer / paint do I need for the flexible \ plastic bumper skin). I have a 2.5hp 21Gallon 125psi air compressor. Edit: Would you recommend this paint gun from harbor Freight? http://www.harborfre...-kit-94572.html Many thanks! Yasin Hey Yasin, A decent gun is only twice as much if you get lucky. I found a nice Craftsman HVLP on sale for $100 a few years back. If you keep your eyes open you'll find something worth your while. I'm sure these would be fine for a bumper but who know when you might want to paint an entire car... It's nice to trust your stuff. -Stan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightywhitey185 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 would it hurt to shop for multiple estimates from 3 or 4 shops?That seems spendy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter72 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Its only a rip off if you paid for them to paint. Damn, Maaco and Earl Shieb paint entire cars for less then that. lol The Bumper repair guys who travel around to car dealerships, will paint it cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) If you goof up on spraying the paint, nothing a bit of wet sanding won't fix Oh yeh. If you buy a compressor.. its all about the duty cycle and CFM. The gun requires the following : 12 CFM @ 43 PSI. If the compressor specs are greater then that, you should be fine. The compressor can be running non stop, as long as it provides a steady 12 cfm at 43 psi you should be fine. Edited December 6, 2011 by proxlamus© Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slownrusty Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the replies guys! I really would like to tackle this at home, infact I am excited versus driving my bumpers to 3 or 4 body shops to find the least inexpensive shop. Thanks for the suggestion on the Craftsman HVLP and also to ensure that my compressor can deliver 12CFM @ 43psi. More to come! Warm Regards - Yasin Edited December 6, 2011 by slownrusty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero6zero Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I own and operate a body shop. that price is insane. a more accurate price is in the 200.00 range depending on the amount of sandng/ prep the bumper needs. sand well with 180 grit and remove any spider cracks this is very important to.make sure any cracked paint is removed right down to.the plastic. old paint that still has proper adhesion can be sprayed over. but remove as much as you can to minimize your paint thickness. any bare plastic will need to be treated with plastic adhesion promoter. but I.have side skipped this before if the bare spots are small. and I spray dupont products. it requires a value shade coat before base coat is applied. sand with.240 grit or 320 before applying value shade sealer. I would ask a body shop if you can buy sealer and its required catalyst separate. in the amount you.need to.avoid buying more.than you need. paint is fairly cheap. 30s buck a pint depending on.color. and 80-100 bucks a gallon for clear. a pint of.clear is.more.than enough with.a gun with a proper fluid tip. I spray with a sata rp3000digital with a 1.3 tip. at about 40psi its all it the wrist after that. keep the nozzle4-6 inches from the.surface adjust pattern and pressure accordingly. try not to hold the gun on an angle keep the fluid tip facing the surface and let go of.the trigger everytime you change sweeping direction to uneven buildup. painting is actually pretty easy. the other thing you may consider is maybe they quoted you on blending the adjacent.panels to.secure an.effective color match. find out.for sure depending on color you may find this ti be a fair price if blening adjacent panels was taken into consideration good luck. ask me anything you want. I.can even prob get you paint formulas and dupont product numbers if.you decide to use.their product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero6zero Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 4-6 inches is.actually a little close for color. but not for clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palosfv3 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 So I have to vent....Nothing like getting your excitement deflated from the feeling of being ripped off by dishonest people. I took my 280ZX rear bumper to a Body Shop today and they quoted me $600 to re-paint it. I just about fainted.... This bumper has no damage and just old paint, which is why I wanted to freshen it up with some new paint. What makes you believe the body shop owner is dishonest ? Stateing he needs $600.00 to refinish a rear bumper doesnt make him a crook. I believe he is a business person that is aware of his operarting costs are and understands what is needs to charge for repair. You have a choice to conduct business with him or not. Simple as that. Unless you know what the competition may charge for this repair you cannot draw any conclusion as to if he is priced competitively or not. I own and operate a body shop. that price is insane. a more accurate price is in the 200.00 range depending on the amount of sandng/ prep the bumper needs. You may want to become aware of your true costs of doing business. Based on your statement you could have difficulties keeping your enterprise open. Costs of doing business involves more than just buying a small amount of paint and clear. I don't want to upset anyone but come on guys . Be realistic. I have been in the business for longer than many on this forum have been around. It disturbs me to have shop owners blanketly called dishonest for no apparent reason and to have those new to the industry unaware of what it takes to exist and become solid reputable entities. Yasin . Its good to see you not afraid to attempt this repair . Do your homework on what the correct repair procedures and the proper repair materials needed . Your rear 280zx cover should be of a urethane composition . If you need to fill any gouges or repair any tears make sure the repair material is the correct flexable material for the urethane. Adhesion promoter is primarily for todays new TPO family covers which have a release agent impregnated into the plastic. Urethane is more flexable than TPO and as such will require a flex additive to be mixed into primers as well as top coats . If your cover has almost invisible cracks in the finish look carefully to make sure they cracks have not extended into the urethane. If they have you will have to repair the urethane . If you just sand and primer they will reappear shortly. There also is a difference in how the bumper is refinished . Off or on the car ? Its best to remove the cover from the car to paint. This way all the edges can be correctly cleaned and sanded. This will give you a better end result. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero6zero Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) I realize its not just paint and clear. the.price was reflective upon the price of what it cost to have the job done. 35 years we have been open for. id say that's long enough. where exactly is 600 dollars justified.... around here labor rates are 52/hour paint and materials are 32/hr. lets call it a 5 hour job 3.5 labor 1.5 paint and materials haz.waste disposal few bucks for flex additive, you you cant charge him for a quart if he doesnt need it. tax is cheap, its just on the materials hes at about 250 ish. and I did say depending on how much prep the bumper needs. I was assuming it was in decent condition. no.cracks or tears to repair... if you can honestly say you would charge him 600 to paint a bumper cover. try telling an insurance company you want that much to clean up a used part and paint it... I'm sure you will find they will laugh at you.. I have been painting myself for 7 years..doing collision work for 10. maybe you have been doing it longer. but 600.00 come on... remember he didn't ask anyone to R&I.who knows maybe I'm wrong. Edited December 6, 2011 by zero6zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihavearustedz Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 1.5 hrs to prime/block/seal, then still paint/clear ? My painters at minimum get 3.5 hrs for a bumper :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slownrusty Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 I own and operate a body shop. that price is insane. a more accurate price is in the 200.00 range depending on the amount of sandng/ prep the bumper needs. sand well with 180 grit and remove any spider cracks this is very important to.make sure any cracked paint is removed right down to.the plastic. old paint that still has proper adhesion can be sprayed over. but remove as much as you can to minimize your paint thickness. any bare plastic will need to be treated with plastic adhesion promoter. but I.have side skipped this before if the bare spots are small. and I spray dupont products. it requires a value shade coat before base coat is applied. sand with.240 grit or 320 before applying value shade sealer. I would ask a body shop if you can buy sealer and its required catalyst separate. in the amount you.need to.avoid buying more.than you need. paint is fairly cheap. 30s buck a pint depending on.color. and 80-100 bucks a gallon for clear. a pint of.clear is.more.than enough with.a gun with a proper fluid tip. I spray with a sata rp3000digital with a 1.3 tip. at about 40psi its all it the wrist after that. keep the nozzle4-6 inches from the.surface adjust pattern and pressure accordingly. try not to hold the gun on an angle keep the fluid tip facing the surface and let go of.the trigger everytime you change sweeping direction to uneven buildup. painting is actually pretty easy. the other thing you may consider is maybe they quoted you on blending the adjacent.panels to.secure an.effective color match. find out.for sure depending on color you may find this ti be a fair price if blening adjacent panels was taken into consideration good luck. ask me anything you want. I.can even prob get you paint formulas and dupont product numbers if.you decide to use.their product. Thank-you for your multiple replies and also the great advice. I appreciate it and will definitely follow your steps. I appreciate it. What makes you believe the body shop owner is dishonest ? Stateing he needs $600.00 to refinish a rear bumper doesnt make him a crook. I believe he is a business person that is aware of his operarting costs are and understands what is needs to charge for repair. You have a choice to conduct business with him or not. Simple as that. Unless you know what the competition may charge for this repair you cannot draw any conclusion as to if he is priced competitively or not. You may want to become aware of your true costs of doing business. Based on your statement you could have difficulties keeping your enterprise open. Costs of doing business involves more than just buying a small amount of paint and clear. I don't want to upset anyone but come on guys . Be realistic. I have been in the business for longer than many on this forum have been around. It disturbs me to have shop owners blanketly called dishonest for no apparent reason and to have those new to the industry unaware of what it takes to exist and become solid reputable entities. Yasin . Its good to see you not afraid to attempt this repair . Do your homework on what the correct repair procedures and the proper repair materials needed . Your rear 280zx cover should be of a urethane composition . If you need to fill any gouges or repair any tears make sure the repair material is the correct flexable material for the urethane. Adhesion promoter is primarily for todays new TPO family covers which have a release agent impregnated into the plastic. Urethane is more flexable than TPO and as such will require a flex additive to be mixed into primers as well as top coats . If your cover has almost invisible cracks in the finish look carefully to make sure they cracks have not extended into the urethane. If they have you will have to repair the urethane . If you just sand and primer they will reappear shortly. There also is a difference in how the bumper is refinished . Off or on the car ? Its best to remove the cover from the car to paint. This way all the edges can be correctly cleaned and sanded. This will give you a better end result. Regards My ZX bumper is in good nick, my car has never been hit and there are no gouges or tears, so the prep should be (hopefully) straight forward. The only real flaws to speak of are where the previous owner used a machine \ self-tapping screw to fasten the plate the bumper, and I would like to fill these two holes. Thanks for your advice on proceeding with tackling the job myself. I already removed the bumper and skin from the car so no R&R required. Regarding my comment on the body shop owner being dishonest, I stand-by my comments. As a regular Joe Schmo with a (small) payecheck that I have to stretch to cover bills and have some $$ left on my hobby, I felt very "taken-advantage" of, I have had many many many cars painted from small areas to entire cars and I know the associated costs accordingly, and I have never ever been quoted $600 to paint a bumper ever. Some of these Body Shops have to realize that regular guys like me, simply cannot afford this and I felt insulted, I am not an insurance job where they can make $$ off the work. I would have preferred if he would have stated that they would not be interested. 1.5 hrs to prime/block/seal, then still paint/clear ? My painters at minimum get 3.5 hrs for a bumper :/ What is your hourly rate...curious. Regards - Yasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero6zero Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 When i got to work today i wrote an estimate for refinishing a rear bumper for an 83 280zx. it was as far back as my mitchell estimating software would go back. keep in mind, this was just a refinish estimate and not a repair R&I. this was written with my statefarm insurance profile. altho it came to be a little higher than i orginally told you, i was not far off, the way this estimating company gets these numbers, is by paying a body man to do the job 5 times, they then average the amount of time it took the worker to complete the task. standerd refinish quote is as follows 1. refinish rear ctr. cover 1.0/hr 2 refinish rear outercover 0.8/hr 3 refinish rear outercover 0.8/hr 4. clear coar 0.9/hr 5 paint&met. 112.00 6 hazd. waste disp. 5.00 3.5 hours @52.00 labor 182.00 additional costs 123.72 this is paint& met, tax and little **** gross total= 305.72 hope this helps, mitchell is a nationally accepted estimating program that multiple insurance companies use to write estimates, its not cheap software and is updated monthly i stand by this company Maybe where i live labor is cheap. i will admit, im not rolling in the dough, but im not exactly going hungry either. like i said early i think we have been open for 35-37 years, 3rd generation i am. i grew up in a body shop. i do not claim to be the best. and all shops are different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero6zero Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 i would also like to mention that altho this is the price that the software came up with palos is somewhat correct with his true costs of bizz statement. this is not a lucrative job for a body shop. if all i did was these little jobs i wouldnt make much money. its borderline profitable. the idea is to do jobs like these to get a new costomer and keep an old one. if i did this job for you at 300.00 i would expect you to return to me with your insurance claim of 5 grand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palosfv3 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 060 Your misunderstanding the Mitchell estimating data software and how the info is gathered. Mitchell is not timing anyone and doing the math. They do very few time studies and the deeper you dig into the info the more flaws appear in the system. The base for times starts with the manufacturors warrantee labor guides. Are these accurrate or not ? Talk to some dealer ship techs and ask their opinion. There are so many variables as said in the first paragraph of the p pages . Remember these times are for replacement with new OEM undamaged parts on a new undamaged vehicle and the information is to be used as a guide not the "Bible" . Read up on your p pages as well as some of the other info on the manipulation of the labors time and pricing by the insurance industry. You will be shocked by what you learn. I dont do this to stir the pot just to call your attention to the abuses I have expierienced and seen in this industry by the insurance companies. Take some time to look through these sites. http://www.theccre.com/ here a forum discussion on ADP you may find interesting. http://prodiscussions.com/proboard/showthread.php?583-Check-this-out-read-from-the-bottom-up-Audatex-at-it-s-finest http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=160427&trk=myg_ugrp_ovr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero6zero Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Palos you are definitely 100% correct about abuse from insurance companies, i agree the shops should get paid more. these practices over the years have allowed a biz, such as my own to greatly reduce the costs of overhead to stay profitable. good contract with materials supplier shop and tools paid for. my town 40k people 7 body shops in a 15 mile radius... most with a good history with talented workers. Its very competive. i could never charge 600.00 and expect to get the job. while a shop just down the road can offer equal quality for half or 2/3rds the price. Now as far as the way mitchell compiles Data. They do time studies, maybe not enough, or maybe not 100% accurate, but when it comes down it it, it is what it is. Im not claiming to be an expert, and i think we are getting a little off track with the original post. I will read the links you sent me, its always good to be informed. i do read all the body shop business mags i get in my mailbox and they sometimes refer to these same topics. Now back to the original question at hand.. Is 600.00 pricey? i think so. Can it be done properly for half the price? i promise it can! in anycase i wish slownrusty the best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slownrusty Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 in anycase i wish slownrusty the best of luck. Thanks! I'll need it and will certainly post pictures. My best - Yasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280z4me2 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 The dirt cheap purple gravity feed guns at harbor freights will do the trick. I use them as primer guns but have sprayed a hood and several door jams with it. It laid out single stage paint great! And if you run it at about 25 Psi , your compressor will be fine for a small job like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWestS30 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 you can paint it yourself for sure its all in the body work and detail that means primer base coat clear coat and a lot of wet sanding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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