sKwared Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Like most folks on here, I'm working on a budget in restoring my recent 260z purchase. Granted, the wife has been a bit generous with the budget, but she expects the costs to be phased over time, not handed out in bulk. My first order of business was to address the common rest areas. I gutted the interior, stripped out all of the old carpet and tar, etc. The drivers floor pan is in surprisingly good shape, however I did encounter a couple quarter sized rust holes on the passenger floor - one just forward of the front seat bracket, the other just below the area where the floor curves up to meet the firewall. Everything between is either pristine or appears to be only superficial surface rust. (First question - do you guys feel this warrants a full pan replacement or just a couple small patches?) I'm a firm believer in that the rust problems I see are likely the tip of the iceberg. The idea was to strip what I can, then pass the car off for some sort of media blasting (as of yet undecided, there seem to be pros and cons to each method). While this would undoubtedly reveal any rust problems I've yet to encounter, my understanding is that I would have to have the car primered almost immediately after to prevent any sort of flash rust on the now bare metal. I cant weld. I cant spray. No matter how I look at it this process seems to be largely connected and will require paying someone to blast, repair/weld, then primer, all in a brief period, thereby destroying my plan to tackle this part of the project in phases. Am I at a point where just weeks into this project I have to put it on hold until my monthly budget accumulates enough to pay someone to do all of this simultaneously? Or am I completely taking the wrong angle here? Very newbie questions I know, but I'm getting frustrated that every project I want to start seems to be delayed or directly connected to another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redneck1545 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 What did you do before you knew how to turn a wrench? I hadn't sprayed, welded, or fabricated anything of the sort until I stripped down my z. Half the fun in building the car is LEARNING HOW TO DO THOSE THINGS YOURSELF! Since I stripped my car I learned how to blast, strip, spray, weld, fabricate, and design metal so much so that i've built my own floor pans, seat mounts, roll cage, fuel cell cage, and the list goes on. Take classes if you need to but youtube and a little reading goes a long way. Learn how to do the things you can't do or afford to pay someone to do for you and tackle them yourself and in the end you'll end up with a much more satisfied result. Keep in mind don't tackle EVERYTHING that feels over your head...even I payed a professional to weld my cage for me after I notched all the tubing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOZ UP Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Collectors. I will never again try to make my own collectors. I like welding and all, and I guess I'm okay at it, but some things are just better left to people who's entire business revolves around making the parts, and who have large shops full of equipment to make them properly. Instead of a chop saw and a grinder. Ugh.... Never again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sKwared Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 What did you do before you knew how to turn a wrench? I hadn't sprayed, welded, or fabricated anything of the sort until I stripped down my z. Half the fun in building the car is LEARNING HOW TO DO THOSE THINGS YOURSELF! Since I stripped my car I learned how to blast, strip, spray, weld, fabricate, and design metal so much so that i've built my own floor pans, seat mounts, roll cage, fuel cell cage, and the list goes on. Take classes if you need to but youtube and a little reading goes a long way. Learn how to do the things you can't do or afford to pay someone to do for you and tackle them yourself and in the end you'll end up with a much more satisfied result. Keep in mind don't tackle EVERYTHING that feels over your head...even I payed a professional to weld my cage for me after I notched all the tubing. Thanks for the response. I've thought about learning to weld, but thoughts seem to be mixed in this area... There's the DIY crowd and then there's the "leave such a critical piece to the pros" crowd. Personally, I'm torn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redneck1545 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Just like paying someone 800-1200 bucks for a head gasket....seems outta reach if you dont know what your doing, until you realize all there is to do is loosen and tighten bolts. Welding is like having sex...sometimes your good, sometimes your great, and sometimes you messed up so bad ya gotta start all over. But in either case, practice makes perfect! or darn close anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I salute you for recognizing that rust holes indicate just the tip of the iceberg! Your off to a great start, not underestimating the project is a good place to be. There is a line between taking it to a shop and having it done right and laughably overpaying. The problem is, with the Z costing what it is, most shops will take you towards the later. The way I see it, if you come out on top after counting the money for tools and the time you spent multiplied by your hourly wage, it's worth doing it yourself. Ideally, if you had the money, you would have the car blasted and primered so you can go about cutting out the bad metal. But from what I gather I would think compartmentalizing would be beneficial for your self. Do little things in preparation for the big task. Stripping the car: *All you need is a basic set of hand tools, sturdy jack, jack stands/wood cribs, and a helping hand. You can literally get the car down to it's bare bones in about a week, taking it easy. Prep metal repair: *Buy a wire wheel or bowl attachment for a an angle grinder or power drill and attack the rusted areas. *Mark off bad pitted/thin metal with tape/permanent marker and find out all the spots that will need to be replaced. *Take the area around the spot in question down to bare metal so new metal can be welded in with ease after the bad metal is removed. It would probably cost 50$ or so for the parts, and you can spend many hours removing rust and finding problem areas. After you ID all these spots it will be easier to determine if this is a job you can learn how to do, or if it would be better to take it to a shop, or if it's a job you will have to do yourself. Prep for paint: *Buy paintstripper and strip portions down to bare metal. *Buy a hammer and an assortment of dollies to straighten out dents. *Buy brake clean/alcohol and clean up the area. *Buy etch primer and spray it on straight clean bare metal. Paint shops will end up blocking/sanding the car before paint anyways, so a layer of primer will keep the car from prematurely rusting before it goes to the shop. And it will also give you a chance to inspect the car underneath the paint. On the DIY front: A sandblaster can be had for ~100$ and sand costs next to nothing. The only downfall is that it does get everywhere so if space is limited it will be a problem. A welder can be had for ~500$ and can always be sold once you finish (if it is a name brand). Alternatively, if you befriend a welder, I'd be surprised if they asked for much more than consumables and a reasonable hourly fee. A decent compressor and paint gun can be had for ~400$. This opens many doors as a compressor gives you access to air tools. On the take it to a shop front: Sandblasting/media blasting quotes I have been given/heard: 1$/minute, 500$ from a shop specializing in blasting large containers, 200$ from a garage mechanic, 2000$ for sandblasting and primering all surfaces inside and out. Welding: 80-200$ an hour, 1000-2000$ for floors and rails depending on condition. Painting: really does range, from 400$ macco jobs, to full out 8000$ professional jobs using specially formulated colors and brand specific primers and scratch healing clear coat. Your choice as to how much you want to learn, if you make more an hour doing your day job, no reason to spend time learning a skill that pays less, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dershum Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I'll echo what pretty much everyone else is saying with my own stories. I spent most of my childhood helping my grandfather/uncle fix up family cars when they needed work, but beyond handing tools, and helping with an extra set of hands, most of my exposure was watching and learning. I always wanted to restore a car, a Z in particular (I fell in love with on my father had when I was a kid), so I decided this past summer to take the dive. The first thing I did was say to myself, "get it running, and enjoy it for the summer". I broke down the issues into their component bits, and went from there. First, the car had electrical gremlins, so I ignored everything else, and starting working on those. I got out a multimeter, the electrical diagrams for the car, and started tracing wires. By the time I was done, I knew the electrical inside and out, had pulled out about 100 feet of extra wire that had been spliced in by PO's, and had everything except the reverse lights working. Next, I knew the motor was running rough, so I took a look at the ignition/fuel system. I got a timing light, watched some videos online of how to tune SU carbs, and read about half of "The SU Carb High-Performance Manual" so I would get a better understanding of how they work. I set the timing, got the carbs running "better", and the car was driving great. However, I learned through that, that the cooling system was in bad shape. The car overheated while I was messing with the carbs, and popped the "seal" (and I use the word seal very loosely) around the water pump. I tore the water pump off, pulled out all of the cooling bits (hoses, radiator, etc), and decided to replace everything with a new radiator, electric fans, etc. I also learned that the PO had bypassed the heater core in a really bizarre way, so I just capped off that outlet on the back of the block to remove "the cooling loop of hell" (or at least I think that's what TonyD referred to it as). Once all the new parts were in, the car was running great again. I was able to drive it for a while, but I decided I was done sitting in seats that smelled like they were 100 years old and full of caveman farts, so I tore the seats out, and reupholstered them from the frame up. I sanded down everything, repainted, and completely rebuilt them. Now they're brandy-new, and far more comfortable than sitting directly on the frames. Once late autumn hit, I knew I wanted to pull the motor for a rebuild, so I got a buddy, got a cherry picker from craigs list for 150 bucks, and we pulled it out. I tore down the motor, and after looking at it, I decided "ok, this is over my head", and that's when I went to a machine shop/engine builder for a rebuild. The motor is still there, and I'm finally getting all the bits ready to go over, but this is the first time I've had someone else do something on the car. So I think the moral of my story (so far) is this...keep things compartmentalized. Pick a project and work on it until you're successful, or you decide you're over your head. This will keep you from getting overwhelmed by the magnitude of it (because it can be daunting if you've never done it before like me), and it will help you control costs by keeping them to one project at a time. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sKwared Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Thanks for all of the great responses guys. As a result of your inspiration, I've started welder browsing, though I likely wont commit to any purchase until I get a full assessment of the rust damage. I like the idea of marking all of the areas requiring repair and revisiting afterwards. Right now I'm stuck on the interior until my brother returns my jack, stands, and cherry picker and lends a helping hand to proceed with tear down. Stripping down the passenger side further last night, I came across this little gem: Quite a bit of rust and what seems to be a poor attempt at bondo by the previous owner. Is there a name for this vertical panel that connects to the rocker panel on the front side of the door jam? Are any of you aware of replacement panels for this particular piece or am I going to have to fab something to match that curve? Thanks again, Kris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redneck1545 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) In all honesty if thats a "BAD" spot to you, then you should really consider looking at some of the rust repair threads on here. No doubt you will find more areas like this but I'd be ECSTATIC if that spot or a few like those above was all I had to deal with. I had feet sized holes in my floors, battery tray completly rusted through, firewall rust, trunk hatch area rust, rear-end damage from previous collision and so on. To repair that section you could buy a sheet of 22ga steel and cut out a small piece and weld it on after you cut out the rusted area. clean it up with an 80 grit flap disc and wire wheel after your done and it will look like new. Lurk around in the metal fabrication area for a while and you'll get a good idea of what has been done to repair these cars and what the typical problem areas are. Edited February 9, 2012 by redneck1545 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) I believe that's part of the door jam, as the rocker is the panel under it. I had that exact same spot, from what I traced, it was poorly installed weatherstripping on the body. Bought a sheet of 20 gauge at the local metal supplier, like 20$ for 10 square feet or something. Cut it out with a set of husky 2x metal snips. Bent it with my fingers. Welded it in. Edited February 8, 2012 by seattlejester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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