Catastrophic U-Joint Failure

[Cannonball89]

I experienced a complete failure of both U-Joints in my driveshaft today at the dragstrip. As soon as I pulled through the water, brought the revs up, and popped the clutch to start the burnout, I hear this awful racket and the whole car is shaking, and then suddenly it stops and I'm just bouncing off the rev limiter. I quickly found that the car wouldn't move, and when I got out, the driveshaft was laying on the ground. Great way to start out the year at the track right?

 

Here are the conditions surrounding the failure:

 

1. I was using very sticky drag radials, Nitto 555R's

2. The burnout box was VERY sticky. They must have just sprayed VHT all over it, because when I got out of the car my sneakers were almost getting pulled off of my feet when I lifted them off the pavement.

3. My car is probably making well over 300 lb/ft of torque at the wheels. (dynoed at 280 lb/ft at 12PSI, currently running about 17PSI)

 

Now I was really suprised that this happened. My driveshaft is almost brand new, custom made for my turbo swap about a year ago, and has only about 3000 miles on it, and only about 5 1/4 mile passes, although a lot of aggressive street driving. I really would have thought that the 40+ year old U-Joints in the half-shafts would have been the first to break, not the almost new ones in my driveshaft. I'm really kind of concerned because this happened with an open R180, and very soon I will have a Torsen LSD R180 from an STI in the car, which will probably stress the driveshaft even more.

 

I don't really know a lot about U-Joints, so I'm hoping some of you can give your insight. I think that the primary reason for failure was because my driveshaft was made with greasable U-Joints, which have a very large (approximately 1/4" diameter) hole in them for the grease to go through. I am hoping that buying solid U-Joints will solve my problem. Here are some pictures of the failures.

 

What do you guys think? Buy solid, non-greasable U-Joints, or do you think I am just making too much power for these small U-Joints?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2012 by Cannonball89

[NewZed]

You have a 240Z with an L28ET, why do you have a custom drive shaft? FS5R90A trans? Wondering. And, for the record, what brand of u-joint was used?

 

Damage is always interesting.

[Cannonball89]

Yes, I am using the T5 that came on the Turbo 280ZX's, and there is not really any way to adapt that transmission to an R180 without a custom shaft being made.

 

As for the brand, all that I can find on the U-Joints are the stampings DN NP 2 and also a stamping of what looks like a crown. The U-Joints were provided by Powertrain Industries, who made the shaft for me. I will probably call them next week to ask them which brand they used, so that I know to avoid it.

 

Here is the link to the part # for the U-Joints that Powertrain used in my shaft: https://www.powertrainindustries.com/catalogs_type.htm?type=UJoints&filter_string=&filter_key=part_number&filter_val=1251-22

 

Those of you putting a T5 in a 240z, Powertrain made me a good quality shaft as far as the workmanship is concerned, but the U-Joints are definitely suspect.

[dexter72]

I think the Manufacturer of the joints is the main problem, What jonts were they?. I remember ready posts that people liked the original joints but you can't get them anymore.

 

On a side note Cannonball, What track did you go to?. I lived in Maryland for 30 years and used to run a Nova at 75-80, Capital, and even went to Buggs Creek one time. lol

[Cannonball89]

I think the Manufacturer of the joints is the main problem, What jonts were they?. I remember ready posts that people liked the original joints but you can't get them anymore. On a side note Cannonball, What track did you go to?. I lived in Maryland for 30 years and used to run a Nova at 75-80, Capital, and even went to Buggs Creek one time. lol

 

Yep, I was at 75-80. Capital is way nicer, but 75-80 has a lot closer for me. Do you remember the go-kart track that used to be next door to the dragstrip? (Well, it still is there, but is overgrown with weeds now lol). I was one of those kids screaming around with a hot-rodded Briggs and Stratton before they closed it down He-He.

 

I'm kind of new to the drag racing scene. I have mainly raced on road courses and ovals during my short life. Drag racing is a less stressful type of motorsport for me at least, if I'm not breaking stuff lol.

 

I'm going to look into the manufacturer of the U-Joints.

[dexter72]

I never went to the go cart track, But always remember that track being bare bones and the farms all around it. I loved the drive to 75-80 from route 29. Nice winding road.

 

What 1/4 times do you run or think you are running with your car?.

 

I have a 74 260 L28 NA-T running 15psi, 3.70 CLSD. Never taken it to the track But pulls hard as hell.

Edited April 15, 2012 by dexter72

[Cannonball89]

I never went to the go cart track, But always remember that track being bare bones and the farms all around it. I loved the drive to 75-80 from route 29. Nice winding road.

 

What 1/4 times do you run or think you are running with your car?.

 

I have a 74 260 L28 NA-T running 15psi, 3.70 CLSD. Never taken it to the track But pulls hard as hell.

 

The last time I was at the track with it, I only managed a 13.4, but the MPH was at 114, so with traction I should be deep in the 12's. So I bought those 555R drag radials and was hoping to get an easy 12 second pass but it turns out that the tires were sticky enough to break the ujoints before I even did a burnout lol.

 

And unfortuneatly that area is becoming more built up now. Some idiots decided to build houses right next to a racetrack and now they complain about noise.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Cannonball89

[RebekahsZ]

Wild that both u-joints broke rather than just the weakest one. Be sure as you can that the ears of the drive shaft aren't stretched. Maybe next time start with high enough tire pressures to allow some spinning then reduce air pressure to desired amount of traction. You can also leave your tires cold. The other way to be easier is to use the clutch. Most equipment failures I see at the drags occur in the burnout,not in the race. You must have a really good clutch!

[Cannonball89]

Wild that both u-joints broke rather than just the weakest one. Be sure as you can that the ears of the drive shaft aren't stretched. Maybe next time start with high enough tire pressures to allow some spinning then reduce air pressure to desired amount of traction. You can also leave your tires cold. The other way to be easier is to use the clutch. Most equipment failures I see at the drags occur in the burnout,not in the race. You must have a really good clutch!

 

Yea when it happened the list of possible things that could have gone wrong went: 1. Halfshaft U-Joints, 2. Clutch 3. Side/Stub Axle 4. Driveshaft U-Joints.

 

My clutch is just a stock Turbo L28ET clutch, I only used some sandpaper to take the glaze off of the disk when I installed it, but apparently it is plenty strong.

 

I think the next time I go to the track I will do my first pass without doing a burnout just to see how well it hooks. I had 18PSI in the tires when I broke the driveshaft U-Joints, I might bump it up to 20 or 22PSI next time to be on the safe side.

[Cannonball89]

Ok, so after researching for several hours, I found out that the U-Joints that were put in my driveshaft were manufactured by a company called PTI. I can't really find out much information about them, but the part # is 1251-22.

 

 

The two alternatives I am looking at are either a Spicer or a Neapco.

 

Spicer # 5-1501X, a solid, non-greasable U-Joint EDIT: Most companies selling this advertise it as a non-greasable U-Joint, but it actually does have a grease fitting in the cross. Jmortenson confirmed that for me today and corrected M2 Differentials web page, but every other vendor I've seen still lists it as non-greasable.

 

or

 

Neapco # 1-0027, a greasable U-Joint

 

 

 

For the record, the size to look for on the driveshaft U-Joints are:

 

Bearing cap Diameter of 0.985"/0.984" (I give these two numbers because the Spicer part advertises it at 0.984" and the Neapco part is advertised at 0.985")

 

Yoke Lock up of 1.736"/1.734" (again, Spicer is at 1.734" while Neapco is at 1.736", both listed as a Datsun application, and both cross reference to the PTI Joints I currently have)

 

 

 

Unfortunately Neapco does not make the right size U-Joint for the driveshaft in the Bruteforce variety. You can get the U-Joints for the Halfshafts in Bruteforce, which is part # 1-0029BF, but they don't make a 1-0027BF.

 

So I am leaning towards the Spicer right now, your thoughts? I like the non-greasable design of the Spicer, but am a little concerned about the bearing diameter being 1 thousands of an inch less than the Neapco.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Cannonball89

[RebekahsZ]

Yeah, I did tons of runs last year with my N.A., CLSD R180 L24, with clutch release (not dumped or side-stepped) from 5-6,000 rpm. I could only do 1st gear burn-outs due to inadequate power. At the line my drag radials hooked but my clutch slipped pretty badly until rpm dropped to 2 grand, then the car would actually start moving. I never broke anything, but it was demoralizing being so slow. My slippy clutch probably protected my driveline. I installed a line lock (do a search on brakes forum) and it really helped me to be more controlled at burnouts and kept me back in the burnout area where it was good and wet and there wasn't any traction additive. I definitely get wheel hop if I roll in the traction-additive part of the staging area. On your burnouts does your car roll from the wet into the high-traction part of the staging area? I also roll out of the burn out a little rather than just getting off the throttle to help my driveline unload gradually as opposed to going from fully loaded to fully unloaded and stopping instantly. Please post your solution and your results as you make changes. Good luck!

 

I'd go with the non-greaseable Spicers. Once installed, you really can't get a grease gun on the driveshaft grease fittings, so the greasability is not really an issue.

Edited April 16, 2012 by RebekahsZ

[Cannonball89]

Well I just talked to Jmortenson. Turns out that the Spicer U-Joints are actually greasable.

[dexter72]

Is he recommending you use Spicers?.

[RebekahsZ]

Oooops

[Cannonball89]

Well he wasn't sure exactly. Apparently nobody ever buys those joints lol. Im going to do some more research and PM a couple more knowledgable people.

[Cannonball89]

I just ordered two of the Spicer 5-1501X joints.

 

Spicer seems to have a very good reputation. Almost every forum I've snooped around on seems to recommend them, especially the offroading forums. In spite of the grease fittings, I'm hoping they hold up better.

 

I'm probably going to replace the U-Joints in my half-shafts at the same time, and I'll report back some results after the next time I go to the track.

[Hybrid240z]

Cannonball89, Don't change the ujoints in your half shafts if they are original and in good condition! I remember reading that the original ujoints appear to be stronger than any aftermarket ones available. I found the two threads below regarding problems with changing the ujoints in the halfshafts. A Guest posted in the second thread about spicer ujoint failures he has had (posts 1 and 17), similar to what happened to you.

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/5109-snapped-another-spicer/page__p__38634__hl__%2Bspicer+%2Bhalf+%2Bshaft+%2Bjoint__fromsearch__1#entry38634

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/6852-spicer-12-shaft-joints-total-sht/page__p__50506__hl__%2Bspicer+%2Bhalf+%2Bshaft+%2Bjoint__fromsearch__1#entry50506

[Cannonball89]

Cannonball89, Don't change the ujoints in your half shafts if they are original and in good condition! I remember reading that the original ujoints appear to be stronger than any aftermarket ones available. I found the two threads below regarding problems with changing the ujoints in the halfshafts. A Guest posted in the second thread about spicer ujoint failures he has had (posts 1 and 17), similar to what happened to you.

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/5109-snapped-another-spicer/page__p__38634__hl__%2Bspicer+%2Bhalf+%2Bshaft+%2Bjoint__fromsearch__1#entry38634

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/6852-spicer-12-shaft-joints-total-sht/page__p__50506__hl__%2Bspicer+%2Bhalf+%2Bshaft+%2Bjoint__fromsearch__1#entry50506

 

Yea, that's a good point. I'm not sure if they are still good or not, definitly better than the ujoints in the driveshaft though. I have some clunking in the rear, not sure if it is from the ujoints or just slop in the differential though. Ill check them out a little further before I replace them.

[skirkland1980]

I had a similar problem with vht in the burnout box. I sheared the wheel studs on the right wheel. Drag tires don't really need much heat to stick. I don't burnout anymore.

[rejracer]

Both Spicer and neapco are good. Most critical is the installation and lube in the joint. I rebuilt my driveline in 98 and used spicers, it's still holding up. I've daily driven it since.