luseboy Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) So I bought what I believe to be a 280z 5 speed off CL a couple weeks ago, and I've been playing around with it, pulled the bell tonight. Since I got it, it hasn't been able to shift into 1st or 2nd. I don't know if it's acctually a problem, due to the fact that it has no tranny fluid in it right now, and that my "shifter" is a ratchet extension with an allen wrench in place of the shifter pin. I can get it into 3 and 4th easily, and 5th and reverse with a bit of an umph but it still goes. (the 5th gear fork is in the rear housing, right? I only have 4 gears inside the bell housing, and 2 shift forks. I hope this doesn't mean I have a 4 speed and I'm fooling myself into thinking I can shift into 5th?). Anyways I was pleased to see what looked like very little wear on the internals. 4th has a bit of grinding on the teeth, but it doesn't look too bad. I shifted it and watched the fork engage 3rd and 4th, and move as I went into reverse and 5th. Then I tried to get it into 1st and second, but it seems to be not synced to the synchro, however that works (sorry, not super knowledgable about transmissions). Basically the shift fork moves until the coupling sleeve hits the baulk ring and then it seems that the teeth somewhere don't engage and it won't go through. What's wierd is that the teeth look like they engage just fine, so idk. Could this simply be from having no lube in there? So what I'm wondering is whether or not this is a big problem, how to fix it, and if it's just caused by the fact that I'm not using a proper shifter and there's no tranny fluid. I can post pictures if need be. I'm mainly looking for your opinion on what the problem could be. I'm willing to try whatever necessary to get it to work. Firstly I should buy a shifter. Also is it bad to shift it while there is no bell on? I made sure to hold the main shaft while doing so, making sure it wouldn't pop out or anything. Edited May 3, 2012 by luseboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermanpete Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Fifth and reverse are behind the adapter plate. you have to remove the tail housing to see them. As for not shifting into first/second, You should be able to select them with the impromptu shifter. Attempt to select first or second and see if the shift fork is moving. You can try to move the shift fork directly as well. Only one gear is allowed at a time so the others must be in neutral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z240 Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 It would also be helpful to rotate the input shaft a bit in a attempt to get gears to line up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 It would also be helpful to rotate the input shaft a bit in a attempt to get gears to line up... I was going to say the same thing, twist the input shaft around while trying to stick it in gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luseboy Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 Ok good thing the 5th/reverse fork is behind the adapter plate, I was getting a little pissed thinking the guy sold me a 4 speed, but there is in fact a 5th. I have been turning the input shaft, to no avail. The fork does move, and moves the coupler until it hits the baulk ring. I will give it a shot in a few minutes. Would a video help? And when I go to put the tranny back together, what all should I replace? Right now I will be doing all the bolts that hold the tail and bell housings onto the adapter plate, sealer between bell and adapter, front gasket and oil seal, and clutch fork dust boot. Anything else worth replacing while I have the trans open? And the main and input shaft bearings feel good, no pitting.out of round balls, and there doesn't seem to be any play between the two races. But I should probably repack the bearings, right? What grease should I use for that? Thanks for all the help guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luseboy Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 Ok so for going into the first, it will mesh with the baulk ring, but won't go past it to the synchro hub. As for going into second, it will not mesh with the baulk ring at all. In both cases, I was turning the input shaft to no avail. tried different speeds, different amounts, different directions. Nothing. I noticed that if i pull the input shaft out away from the adapter plate a bit (it moves like a half inch. I hope this is normal?), I can sort of reposition the 4th gear synchro. Is that the cause of the problem with my 1st and 2nd gear? Also for some reason it's now really tough to get it into 5th and reverse and there's a sort of meshing, almost grinding sound coming from that area. I assume this is due to the lack of tranny fluid? a bit more spilled out from the tail end last night. Anyways I've got the bellhousing sitting with some paint stripper on it, gonna re-paint it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermanpete Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 You don't need to pack the transmission bearings. Lube them with the gear oil you plan to use. If you feel the need for a tacky assembly lube use a grease with a lower melting temperature than the operating temp. of the transmission. We used automatic transmission assembly lube for the pocket bearing and to help hold the lock balls on the main shaft in place during assembly. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-705050/ The input shaft end-play is controlled by the bell housing. It will be floppy when the housing is off. You will probably need to remove the tail housing to diagnose the problem with 1st/2nd. If there is a problem with the synco or related parts on the main shaft you will need to fully disassemble the gear box to work on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 The problem might be in your ratchet extension shifting mechanism, it might not be rotating far enough to properly engage and/or disengage the ears on the shift rod. Take the handle out with it in neutral and try grabbing the coupling sleeve (the grooved ring that shift fork rides on) and shoving it on to the splined hub. It will take some effort because you won't have the leverage of the shift lever, but it should be comparable to the 4/5 shift. Or borrow a shift lever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luseboy Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 Thanks for the help guys. I will use trany fluid instead of grease, I guess I just assumed there'd be grease in there. Is the input shaft split in the middle somewhere? I can literaly pull it straight out about half an inch. I haven't pulled it any farther than that, in fear that it will pull all the way out. Is this normal? Also is it ok to use an aerosal can of acetone to clean everything off? I won't do it until I have tranny fluid ready to put right back on it after the acetone evaporates so everything isn't dry for too long. What other fluids will I need besides tranny fluid, rtv sealer, loctite for the bolts, and maybe some grease or anti sieze for the input shaft oil seal/clutch collar shaft? Right now I'm thinking the problem is my shifter. I found an msa short shifter for sale, the person test fitted it and didn't like how hard it was to shift so I bought it from them for a bit less than new. Also ordered brass shift bushings. The shifter should be here monday or tuesday, so I can figure it out then. Hopefully having a real shifter on there will do the trick. I tried pushing the coupler on there by hand but I couldn't figure out a good way to hold the tranny so the whole thing didn't move. Maybe if I hold the output shaft against a wall, I'll give that a shot tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermanpete Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Yes, the input shaft is split. There is a bearing between the forward most gear and the gear just behind it. The transmission has 3 shafts. The input shaft, the main shaft, and the counter shaft. The input shaft and the main shaft are on the same center line. The counter shaft is offset from the main shaft. If you have not already done so, get a copy of the factory service manual here: http://www.xenons30.com/reference.html The manual transmission section has good illustrations that explains all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luseboy Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 Yes, the input shaft is split. There is a bearing between the forward most gear and the gear just behind it. The transmission has 3 shafts. The input shaft, the main shaft, and the counter shaft. The input shaft and the main shaft are on the same center line. The counter shaft is offset from the main shaft. If you have not already done so, get a copy of the factory service manual here: http://www.xenons30.com/reference.html The manual transmission section has good illustrations that explains all this. Good thing too! Ah so that explains why the baulk rings turn at a different speed. I do have the one for my model year (what I've been using) but haven't been able to figure it out yet. I haven't read through it completely. I tried to push the shift fork by hand today. It didn't seem to work. I tried oiling the coupler and synchro and baulk ring to see if I could get it to do. No beans yet. I guess I gotta pull the tail shaft too. I'll wait till I get my shifter and then decide from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luseboy Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 Update; got the shifter today (finally! usps took forever). I can get it into 2nd, 3rd, and 4th easily. 5th and reverse are tough and no luck with first yet. did get it past the baulk ring but it's still catching on the synchronizer hub. I've been lubing it and turning the input shaft. Any other ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermanpete Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Bent shift fork? You should take it further apart and inspect everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luseboy Posted May 27, 2012 Author Share Posted May 27, 2012 (edited) Whoooo! I just got it to shift into 1st. I was messing with it again and noticed the synchro was really dry on 1st so I grabbed some marine gearcase lube I had in my garage and lubed it up and it went right in just as easily as 3rd and 4th did. 2nd is easier now too. It seems to be working now. However, it acts the same if I'm in 1st or neutral. I can spin the input shaft just as easily and the output shaft spins at the same speed either way. Is something wrong here? I can't spin the input shaft at all if it's in any other gear. I'm thinking this is normal? I have a feeling once I put the bellhousing back on and fill it with trans fluid it will work fine. What's the best lube for this trans anyways? What about in an r180, since I'm about to open my diff up too? edit: I can now turn the input shaft, I took some channel locks (with a rag covering the teeth) to the input shaft while in gear and turned it. I guess one of the bearings must have been a little rusty and stuck because now it spins. All the gears seem to work, including reverse. Is it worth it to pull the tail housing off and clean out the rest of the trans? Or is it a bunch more work? Edited May 27, 2012 by luseboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Great! The FSM prescribes API GL-4 for the transmission and GL-5 for the diff. I use Redline, and it shifts great. http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=46&pcid=7 http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=133&pcid=4 I buy mine from Gotelli's in SSF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luseboy Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Thanks Leon! I was reading that some people prefer the MT-90 for the trans? I guess I should read into the difference of that. Man pulled the rear cover off the diff yesterday... 40 year old gear oil smells awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Thanks Leon! I was reading that some people prefer the MT-90 for the trans? I guess I should read into the difference of that. Man pulled the rear cover off the diff yesterday... 40 year old gear oil smells awful. Yup, MT-90 is exactly what I used and linked above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luseboy Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 Yup, MT-90 is exactly what I used and linked above. Haha oops... sorry stupid iphone doesn't show the whole webpage. I guess the loose nut behind the iphone probably had something to do with it! I'm having trouble finding a gasket for the cover in the front of the bell-housing. The PO of the trans just put some rtv sealer in place of the gasket. I'd like to put the gasket in if I can get one. Should I just make one or does anyone have a source for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermanpete Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I got one from drivetrain.com. Have you tried a Nissan dealer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luseboy Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 Thanks for the tip, I just ordered one through drivetrain! Guess I gotta paint my bellhousing now. Is there anything I should replace while I have the case open? And for putting the tail and bell housings back on, can I use the same rtv sealer I used for my engine (black automotive formula) or do I need something else? Thanks for all the help guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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