RebekahsZ Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 The sticky thread on shimming the CLSD was very helpful, and so was JMortensen's thread that further discusses the subject of adding clutches. Using shims to replace the two stock CLSD spacers is described, but no pictures were provided, so I had trouble getting my head around the process. My contribution is these photos from my R200 CLSD upgrade. When I ordered my CLSD clutches from Savage42, I forgot to discuss the shimming with him. After discussing this with other forum members, I ordered 0.004 shim material from McMaster.com I put them all on one side to make future adjustments easier. With the shims and additional clutches made it impossible to get the Phillips head carrier screws on, so I used 1" long 1/4" bolts to compress the springs until I got the Phillips head screws in and torqued. I supported the carrier by mounting a stub axle in a vice. The additional clutches increased the break away torque so that I could retorque the ring gear with lock tite to 70#, inserted the carrier and torqued the retention yoke bolts to 70# with red locktite, then installed a new gasket and torqued the rear cover bolts to 17#. Then lots of scrubbing, wire brushing and cleaning before paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Finished product. Sub assemblies ready to be installed next weekend. Will try to yank down the R180, axles and control arms this week. I was hoping to drill the axle bolts and driveshaft bolts for safety wire this weekend, but just broke all my bits. Gonna treat all bolts to some blue locktite and mark them to show wheather they have broken torque or not. Used 2 quarts of Valvoline synthetic 75-90 for LSD and one tube (7oz) of CLSD additive. By the way, how do I distinguish transmission clutch chatter from CLSD clutch chatter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamo3 Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 By the way , what kind of paint did you use? POR-15? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Brush-type rustoleum glass black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 By the way, how do I distinguish transmission clutch chatter from CLSD clutch chatter? LSD's only chatter while turning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 6 clutches. (4) 0.004 shims 2 qts 75-90 7 oz LSD additive: hold 63 ft-lbs breakaway torque. Slips at 64. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) Test drive to work. I don't know if there is a break in period before making and decisions. Diff chatters on turns in traffic more than the old one did. I guess that's the idea? Interesting it chatters more on left turn than on right turns. Lots to learn. Any ideas or suggestions or discussion for a new CLSD man? Doesn't chatter when coasting on turns. Edited May 14, 2012 by RebekahsZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) Add friction modifier to reduce chatter or pull your shims out. There are other CLSD options, KAAZ, OS Giken, etc. Very expensive, but better designs than the Nissan unit in that they have more clutches and they have 1.5 and 2 way operation. Edited May 14, 2012 by JMortensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) I'm gonna drive it a while (I've got a little build fatigue). I also want to learn more - so totally not ready to change anything. What percentage of friction modifier can I run? I currently have one 7oz tube in it. I also wonder if I can just add modifier to it, or if I need to drain it and start over with 2 tubes of modifier, then add oil to full? Does friction modifier un-do anything important/is there a down side to it? Should I just be a big boy and get used to the chatter? If that is just part of the trade off game for better performance - I'm OK with it. How much chatter is really too much (is it destructive)? Heck, until I did this, I didn't even know what chatter was! Just don't want to break too many parts on the trail to LSD Nirvana. Only thing that stands between me and the drag strip is an alignment. I bet this think kicks butt in a straight line! Edited May 14, 2012 by RebekahsZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I've had customers with American cars that have run 3 tubes of oil with no ill effects. I'd drain a bit and then add the second tube. Do some figure 8's to get the additive spread around. I've never heard of damage caused by chatter and I used to work with a guy who intentionally didn't run any modifier at all because he thought it made the LSD weaker. How much is too much... ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 I've never had any failures due to chatter but keep an eye on your inner LCA bushings, mounting bolts, and big bushing bolts. I've had them loosen when running a welded diff due to parking lot/grid chatter. Add more friction modifier as Jon mentions. I would also run 75W/140 GL5 full synthetic gear lube and do about 10 minutes of figure 8s in a parking lot. Really boring. And wait until you hear the big bang. It happens every once in a while but causes no harm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 Isn't the big bang what created the universe? And which bushing is the big bushing? So what, actually and mechanically, and perhaps theoretically, is happening inside the diff to cause "chatter." When this phenomenon was first described to me, I expected a little scrubbing sound like a clutch with oil on it. What I'm hearing is a pretty noisy BANGing. Maybe I'll soon see fish walking! I thought maybe I had failed to tighten my lug nuts-it is that kind of noise. I did some figure 8s (they were pretty lazy 8s) in the parking lot before leaving work and no banging. Then I went to pull out of the parking lot and into traffic: 3 big bangs before I straighten the wheel. Is chatter directly proportional to breakaway torque? Gonna get some more seat time with it and plan to add some modifier this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted May 20, 2012 Author Share Posted May 20, 2012 Changed diff oil to 3 tubes of Trans-X, leaving less than a quart of capacity for 75W140 oil. It IS better, but still banging too much for as much as I street drive this car. Plan is to check the wet break away torque of my old Subi R180 and try to de-shim to that spec. The Subi diff had a little chatter that felt like a tire rubbing a little, nothing like I'm dealing with now. I'm just afraid all this BANGing is going to tear something up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 Spent 20 minutes driving in tight circles; 10 min to left, 10 min to right. I've only heard it BANG once all day. Gonna leave it and go get an alignment. Thanks, everybody! Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted May 26, 2012 Author Share Posted May 26, 2012 One week of daily driving, has only given me an occasional bump and no more BANG. I am happy. I will reduce break away torque to about 40 on the next diff I build up since I am principally a street driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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