letitsnow Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) My co driver was about 1.5-2 sec quicker until my last run where I cut his lead down to .4s. My dad only went to the first few events, and he drove a ES class FC rx7, I beat him, badly. There's no rubber left in the rear suspension, all poly. SSM has a pretty harsh PAX, which may have me looking for more than I should be this early on, from car and driver. Edited July 17, 2012 by letitsnow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burninator Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Unless you're on Hoosiers or similar tire PAX will mean nothing for you. PAX gives you a target, but in my opinion is only accurate if your car and the cars you're competing against are prepared pretty close to the limit of the class, which you are not. Just find a guy who's consistently just a bit faster than you and try to catch them, then move to the next guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 My region sticks the guys on slicks in a Pro class, Prepared class, or Mod class. everything else is a road tire class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I think the parts I find difficult about this car are placing it on line(heavy slow steering, while hanging on for dear life) You should NOT need to hang on for dear life... I would get some GOOD supportive bucket seats, they need not be racing seats, just GOOD street sport seats that let you sit there and concentrate on JUST driving. You would be surprised at how much the pucker factor goes away when your body isn't trying to fly out the window in corners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 It did scare me there. I think the parts I find difficult about this car are placing it on line(heavy slow steering, while hanging on for dear life), and the occasional lift throttle spin/slide scaring me for the next 2 or 3 runs. A more fundamental issue is that you're getting scared when the car steps out or spins. That causes a lot of behavior that creates a spin in the first place. Jerky steering, tensing up, abrupt throttle, etc. At an autocross you are in no danger from a spin. The car won't flip over and explode. Relax. When the car starts to oversteer DO NOT lift off the throttle. Stay in the gas and use very quick hands to catch the oversteer and drive through the corner with the back end out a bit. I thought about the lift throttle oversteer John mentioned a little, the s30 rear doesn't have any toe change with compression/extension, does it? Is that why when you lift and weight transfers off the rear it gets twitchy? Toe change is really not the issue. The problem is weight transfer. By lifting off the throttle you're moving weight forward, off the rear wheels, which reduces rear grip. You're car is behaving exactly as it should and is doing what you're telling it to do. By lifting off the throttle when the car is oversteering it you're telling the car to spin. If the back end starts to step out, stay in the throttle and drive through the corner with the back end out a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 If you don't spin out at least once, you probably aren't trying hard enough! Looking forward to your next video. If you can, move the camera inside the car so we can see how much you are having to "drive" it, because it looks great from the top of the car. The more you modify the car, the more difficult it will be to stay in a particular class. If you see yourself as the next national champion, worry about that stuff. But, if you are just out for fun (like I am), don't sweat all that PAX and competition stuff-just do your best and compete against yourself. I bet winning a national title gets pretty expensive. I'd love to see some pictures of your car - the roof and hood look great. That course looked pretty "open" with mostly sweeping turns, and the facility looks much nicer than what I have to live with (we have telephone poles with guy-wires, pot holes and even a few ditches beside our lot). Do you know how fast you were getting on the straights? What I love about autocross is the ability to lose it without much hazard of losing anything other than getting ribbed by the other guys there. We need a better parking lot; you could get seriously hurt at our facility if you aren't careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkspeed Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Basic alignment then get some sticky autocross tires. They will cover up most minor handling problems and transform even the most mundane car into a race car. You can then work on improving driving skills. The downside is the tires will wear quickly on outside until you get enough camber for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) If you don't spin out at least once, you probably aren't trying hard enough! Looking forward to your next video. If you can, move the camera inside the car so we can see how much you are having to "drive" it, because it looks great from the top of the car. The more you modify the car, the more difficult it will be to stay in a particular class. If you see yourself as the next national champion, worry about that stuff. But, if you are just out for fun (like I am), don't sweat all that PAX and competition stuff-just do your best and compete against yourself. I bet winning a national title gets pretty expensive. I'd love to see some pictures of your car - the roof and hood look great. That course looked pretty "open" with mostly sweeping turns, and the facility looks much nicer than what I have to live with (we have telephone poles with guy-wires, pot holes and even a few ditches beside our lot). Do you know how fast you were getting on the straights? What I love about autocross is the ability to lose it without much hazard of losing anything other than getting ribbed by the other guys there. We need a better parking lot; you could get seriously hurt at our facility if you aren't careful. The rest of the car looks like crap, I've been slowly fixing rust and painting with a urethane primer to seal it. The next event is in 3 weeks, then there are a bunch close together with neighboring regions and the BMW club. I am doing it for fun, but If my name was at the top of the list I'd be having a lot more fun. It's pretty easy to stay in SSM, it's up there pretty high. I could take things off and drop down classes, but what fun is that? In the rx7 I was hitting the rev limiter in 2nd a bit, so about ~60ish, in the Z I've hit the limiter once or twice at 65-67(not in that video), but there was a little tire spin, so probably 60ish actual speed. The lot in the videos with the rx7 is a local college, we used to have an army depot airstrip, but lost that this year, that was a great site. The site with the Z video is the paddock at watkins glen. The only time spinning is dangerous at our sites is when it's right at the finish and you run over the timing light wire mid spin. No idea who could have done that though... That site had a ditch to the other side, so I'm just glad it didn't end up going that direction Here are some pics on course, just for the hell of it. http://www.michaelbushphotography.com/Cars/Autocross/FLR-Event-4/i-9m9B82S/1/M/IMG4671-M.jpg http://www.michaelbushphotography.com/Cars/Autocross/FLR-Event-4/i-XWMTNXf/1/M/IMG4847-M.jpg turned in way late on this one http://www.michaelbushphotography.com/Cars/Autocross/FLR-Event-3-at-RIT/i-ffT3ZDk/2/M/IMG2390-M.jpg and my prime competition in SM, supercharged, coilovers, sticky street tires, somewhat stripped. He is in SMF and has an easier pax to begin with too. http://www.michaelbushphotography.com/Cars/Autocross/FLR-Event-3-at-RIT/i-bs5JtrF/2/M/IMG1278-M.jpg Edited July 17, 2012 by letitsnow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Great pictures. I think your car looks great - from the earlier pictures I thought it was gray; that 2-tone is sweet. What do you think guys, does he need some thicker swaybars? An awful lot of leaning going on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbloke Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I had a very ill handling Z, lift off oversteer was the order of the day at most corners and the car just felt generally unstable, the biggest improvements came from better tyres, bumpsteer mod to the front cross member and front end alignment There is still room for improvement but the car is much more predictable and feels more planted on track Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I totally forgot about this...are you left foot braking? Once you get into second, left foot braking really helps smooth the transitions between throttle, brake and back again. Try it. As I squeeze on the throttle, I modulate off the brakes. As I squeeeze on the brakes, I modulate off the throttle. It totally smoothes out those transitions. You kind of ride the brakes, but not exactly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Here is some video from another recent autocross I mentioned earlier, the one with the BMW club on a very very loose surface. This is not how it normally goes on pavement, well sometimes it is. Not sure how much if any it helps. I also bled and adjusted the rear brakes today, I don't think they've been doing anything this whole season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 I just measured front toe, comes out to about .125" out per side. I used parallel strings and a ruler graduated in 1/32, I wouldn't bet huge money on this setup, but I'd bet it's pretty close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 That's a lot of toe out. 1/16" out per side for a total of 1/8". Toe in of 1/16" total in back will stabilize the rear and help putting power down. Make absolutely sure the car tracks straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logr Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 What do you mean "DP camber plates". I have looked at Betamotorsports and they have no camber plates listed. Are there any bolt in plates available as that is all that is SM legal? I see the ones that are non adjustable from Motorsport but nothing else bolt in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 PM johnc and ask him about them. He was selling EMI brand camber plates which are essentially the same. He had supply problems with EMI and switched to DP. Either I, or his website, is out of date. johnc = BetaMotorsports.com. Try a google image search on EMI camber plates and you will get the idea. If you still can't find it, PM me and I'll find some pictures for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logr Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I will do that but am seriously considering making the lower control arms adjustable and using the poly ones on top, to possibly keep the car a bit more reasonable for a driver. Are the solid ones much nosier and rougher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 The website says they're NLA for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 The EMI Plates are NLA. I have been selling Don Oldenberg's (Design Products Racing - DP Racing) biscuit style camber plates in place of the EMIs for those customers interested. I haven't updated the web site, but I probably should. The confusion arises because Don's web site has been down for a while and I had a link to his from mine. Anyway, I sell the DP Racing biscuit style camber plates for $185 per pair (same as what Don charges) plus the $10 Don charges to ship one or two pair to me. I disassemble the fronts and grease the Torrington bearing with Wurth SIG3000 before I ship them off to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 johnc can tell you the specifics of how the EMI "plates" and the DP "plates" differ design-wise. To me as the installer and user, they are the same. You have to communicate with johnc when you place your order so that any sleeving of the bearing (strut rod diameter) can be done specifically for your shock type and model. When you get serious and have your money ready, swap some PMs with him. If you already have coilovers, these camber plates improve your autocross a TON over stock and only take only an afternoon of work, plus an alignment to be back on the road. For me it was like night and day; some of the best money I've spent on the car. I was having trouble with pushing in turns, so I put the plates in the front. The car stopped pushing right away and I was able to steer the car with throttle. I didn't have to enter turns as slow or pile on the brakes so much getting into a corner. I don't know whether I would get rear plates next or an LSD...I got a subi LSD next (using johnc's stub axles). I have recently gotten DPs for the rear, but haven't autocrossed on them yet as my car is currently in a drag racing configuration and I will keep it that way until I shave 0.2 seconds and pick up 4 more mph in the 1/8th. These camber plates are somewhat "digital" as you adjust camber by choosing from available adjustment "holes" for your strut insulator bolts, as opposed to sliding a traditional camber plate in a slot. Traditional camber plates give you "infine" adustability. IMHO, it is much more important to go from zero camber to 3-ish degrees camber than it is to adjust from 2.7 degrees or 3.2 degrees. I was happy to get in the 3 degree ballpark and drive it. I had one front wheel at 3 degrees and the opposite at 3.25. I chose not to split hairs, the car drove so much better than it did when I had 0 degrees (and probably less in a corner). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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