decisions decisions

[AZGhost]

I am a proud new owner of a 76 280z here in Arizona. It was kept up in Flagstaff, literally in a barn for the last 10+ years. Spider webs, and pine needles everywhere in this car. Body is completely straight, but a little rust has set into the passenger door which may need to be replaced. No rust anywhere else. Paint is crap, and engine is seized. Weather stripping is all dried out, and needs to be replaced which is no big deal. Engine bay looks brand new otherwise. Hoses, wiring are all in excellent shape considering how long its been sitting.

 

So with 10k in my hand, the question is, what engine do I go with? My father in law is leaning heavy towards V8 swap, with 700R4 transmission, and his shop guys are in agreement with him (they restore old chevy's at his shop). It seems cliche to me... The reasoning is lots of parts available for 350 SBC, easy to do, no guess work, which I get.

I would like to stroke the L28 out with triple carbs. Robello has the stroker 3.0 kit for it, which has peaked my interest. Keeps it more period, but then you have the parts availability going forward. I have sent Robelloracing some emails, but not heard back from them yet. I am not looking to complete everything in this car in a month, but get enough done, so I can start to enjoy it and add to it over time. The 3.1 stroker would be sweet, but its 2k just for the crank from Japan, and I dont know anyone who sells a 3.1 do it yourself kit. (i probably need a new block too, the L28et?)

 

 

The idea is to have a fun/weekend car. Occasional track/strip, but mostly just city driving. Want enough power for fun and show some old school power.

 

So the question is, if you had to do it all over again, what would you do?

Edited October 23, 2012 by AZGhost

[_Donovan_]

With that money, I suggest body and suspension work. Build the car up with coilovers and better brakes and body work. Only after all that is up to the highest level you ever want, then engine swap. I did it backwards, and I regret that.

[devil280Z]

I agree with donovan, make sure it can drive down the road before you worry too much about a running motor. That being said, i have a stroker mototr and i love it, but make sure you are willing to spend the money! It is a lot more expensive than a L28ET that you can find for a few hundred. As far as the stroker crank, you dont have to order one from japan just find a ld28 crank. Nissan maxima had a diesel motor and the crank from that works perfectly.

[AZGhost]

With that money, I suggest body and suspension work. Build the car up with coilovers and better brakes and body work. Only after all that is up to the highest level you ever want, then engine swap. I did it backwards, and I regret that.

 

So engine swap to V8 is your suggestion? My thinking was to do the suspension/brakes semi-last. Why do this first? Please enlighten Coilovers and brakes are on my list, but at the end of it, and slightly on the longer term conversion plan. Along with a real axle swap to get disc brakes on the rear (like a Q45 swap or something). Would also like to get the 5 lug hubs up on the fronts, so I can get something more modern like 330m rotors. Need to find a good balance of getting newer parts on, but still keeping it old school.

 

The body is really perfect other than the passenger door having rust on it in one particular spot. My father in law has a paint booth at his shop, so Ill be striping the paint, and getting a new coat on it for sure after everything has been stripped out. Interior is in very good condition, so it will all get saved.

 

Ya, I read about the LD28 crank out of the diesel maxima, its like looking for gold from what i've heard tho. Goes back to my hard to find parts thing. I knew what I was getting into tho. I had one of these things when I was a teenager, so I cant wait to get this on the street, now that I have real money and not a teenagers budget

[clutchdust]

If I had a good body but needed a drivetrain, I would be looking for a modern v-6 (Nissan or otherwise). Aluminum block for lighter weight, set further back for better balance, and a 6-speed tranny. But I'm not in that position, well, sort of, but I digress.

[_Donovan_]

I didn't say anything about which motor to swap, There are too many threads with almost exact wording of questions like yours.

 

Let's put it this way, I had a wonderfully driving '76 280Z. I decided that it was time to do the V8 conversion. So I started there. Now I have a V8 280Z that I am scared to drive or hit the gas to hard for fear of breaking something, not slowing down in time, or spinning out around a corner by just downshifting. Now I need to put my attention to those issues, which prolongs the build and adds more money.

 

As for tacking it to a track, you will get so much more speed around a road course by upgrading breaks and suspension. Think of it, if you can wait an extra 2 seconds before getting on the breaks for a turn, or because of handling you can take that turn at 45 instead of 35, then you will be so much faster out of the turns and around the track. Not to mention if you upgrade all that first, when you do go bigger engine and power then you don't have to worry about babying it so not to break those half shafts.

 

Also $10k budget. hahahhahhahahhahahaahahhahahahahhahahaah

 

 

 

hahahahhahahahahhahahhahahahaaha

 

 

 

 

 

hahahahhahahahhahhahahhaa

 

 

 

Get my point?

Edited October 23, 2012 by _Donovan_

[_Donovan_]

Since it is late and I don't sleep and have nothing else to do, I will post up some threads for you to check out. I am not trolling I am helping. The last thing I want to see is you get half way into the project and can't afford or don't have the time to finish. Then another Z on craigslist or under a tree.

 

Z Swap threads

 

This thread is almost exactly the same as your thread, even down to the $10k budget.

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/108708-hypothetical-engine-swap-for-240z/

 

This is a good read

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/52263-newb-project-faq-what-engine-swap-how-much-will-it-cost/

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/38577-s30-240-280z-chevy-v8-swap-faq/

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/106858-planning-a-conversion-how-much-might-i-pay/

 

 

more threads on cost, One thing to remember that anyone posting just a few parts with low numbers are probably leaving out the little things here and there that really add up.

 

This is probably first thread you need to read on it.

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/2777-how-much-did-everyone-spend-on-their-v8-conversion/page__p__19937__hl__spend__fromsearch__1#entry19937

 

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/79965-average-build-cost/page__p__758959__hl__cost__fromsearch__1#entry758959

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/21083-whats-the-avg-cost-for-the-v8-swap/page__p__156496__hl__cost__fromsearch__1#entry156496

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/2374-240z-v8-conversion-cost-and-time/page__p__17114__hl__cost__fromsearch__1#entry17114

 

 

 

Now, most every thread will give you the number one piece of advice, Buy the book from Jags that Run. It is only about $35 and will tell you almost everything you need to know. You can then use that to virtually plan out the car.

 

Now I will give you some of my expenses, just to give you a heads up where my money went.

 

I have a LT1/4L60E in mine. I have a grand in the fuel system and I do not have it the way I need it. Not where I want it, but how I need it to be. You have to buy the complete exhaust, headers to thee tips. $300+ for headers and around $450 for the rest of the exhaust, which I think I got a good deal. A few hundred on a base tune if you run a computer and I suggest another tune when it is running which should be another $200. However or whatever you will use to shift it will cost money. I am using GPS speedometer which is $300 and in my opinion the best way to run it. The mounting kit will be about $150 or more. The custom driveshaft will be about $400. The cooling system I believe I have $400 or more into. I probably have a few hundred through trial and error to get the mounting of the alternator and serpentine built hooked up. Wiring costs, materials, tools, different things all add up quickly. This also didn't mention the engine and transmission.

 

Then, on top of all this you have to register it, take it to a referee station, and get insurance on this. You can tell your inurance that you didn't swap it out, but if you have an accident you may have some explaining to do.

 

My point of all this basically is to say don't focus on the engine just yet, also planning out the entirety of what needs done and what you want done will save you time, money, headaches, and safety.

 

Good luck with everything regardless and search around, there is A TON of info here.

Edited October 23, 2012 by _Donovan_

[Pharaohabq]

Nice Post _Donovan_...

 

I too would recommend you work on the body more than anything. Get it running on the L28 if possible and get a real feel for the car. Then you'll have a better idea of what NEEDS to be fixed first and that you WANT to upgrade. If there's rust on the door, I would hazard that there's other rust hiding. Your frame rails and floor pans are good things to check out. Of course if you posted PICTURES, we could see what you're looking at. The L28 you say is frozen, may not be. it might just be stuck because it hasn't moved in a while. I would pull all the plugs and heavilly spray down the cylinders with WD40 then let it sit a while. From there you can try the starter, but likely you'll need a breaker bar on the crank and wiggle it a bit. I bet it'll break loose. The fuel systen might be gummed up, but if you can get it going you'll be ahead.

 

In his threads above, Donovan noted a lot of the costs involved in your swap. All things being equal, it doesn't really matter which engine you choose. It's not so much the engine choice that's the main cost(unless you go Viper V10 or a VR38dett), so long as you stick with a production engine. It's the Fab work, and little things that add up to a lot. I'm on a shoestring budget on my VQ35HR swap, but I'm already up to near $3000 and I haven't hit paint yet. Most of my cost is in restoration parts.

 

These cars are 35+ years old and though they're awesome, there's not than many around that are in that great a shape, not original anyway. So getting your car running will give you a good idea of what it'll need, and where you want to go with it before you start buying parts. It will also give you some enjoyment right away before you enter swap hell. It's great you have a shop availible to help out, and people to work with you. that will go a long way. But make sure they're still okay with the idea of the car being around a while. Parts are not always locally availible.

 

Oh speaking of parts... That's another trap you REALLY need to watch out for. It's easy to buy a ton of parts for the "while I'm at it" idea. I know so many guys with boxes and boxes of parts waiting to be put on their car. I'm guilty of that too, but you need to keep your eye on the prize and not get distracted from your build. If you spend a lot of parts, you might later decide to go a different direction and then you'll have wasted the $ on the parts. That all leads to planning. Planning will help you more than anything to keep your costs down.

 

When you Plan your build, You'll make a list of what you NEED to do, and what you WANT to do. The needs, of course, are things like Brakes, suspension and restraints to make the car Safe, and to make it run. Then your get to the Wants. Wants are what you want to do, engine swap, interior, 24kt gold paint, fuzzy dice, whatever. the point is that's the area you can spend and spend on. When you're working on the Needs, when you're looking to fix something necessary, think of it as an upgrade opportunity. So brakes, for example, you may find your cylinders are shot. Well, might be an idea to look into the Toyota swap. But don't get that mixed up with the WANTS, if you WANT 5 lug huge monster 4 or 6 cylinder wilwoods or brembos, you can do it, but that's a major project. Going with the toyota swap will fix the NEED for brakes at roughly the same cost as repairing with OEM rebuilts. Where the system your WANT is possible, but will easilly eat 1/4 or more of your entire budget.

 

Now as to your original question of what swap is best. that's up to you to decide. The S30 has space for even a V12. It's what you like and what you can afford. If you don't want to be cliche' as you said with the SBC, then don't go that direction. Read read read, dozens of engines have been swapped, all have their merits.It's what sounds awesome to YOU that matters. The only other pieces of advice I can give you is on the donor. First, decide on what you want to swap, then find out what cars that engine came in. (eg. the VQ35 is in the 350z and G35, but it's cheaper out of a pathfinder, 3.5 altima, maxima or a quest minivan) Then get as complete a donor as possible, You'll save so much buying it all at once, than buying just and engine and tranny and then finding all the parts, accessories harnesses, sensors, ecu/bcu and brackets afterwards. You give yourself so much more flexibilty when you have the entire donor.

 

So what you swap is up to you, but start with a known good base, then one project at a time, keeping track of what your NEED to do , and what you WANT to do. That'll be the easiest way to keep your budget from exploding whatever swap you decide.

 

Phar

Edited October 23, 2012 by Pharaohabq

[texis30O]

I wanted to do a simple upgrade to my turbo set up... I am now at 7000 and counting. I haven't even gotten to the brakes, or drivetrain......

[AZGhost]

Donovan/Phar

 

Thanks for the kind words. To me the engine swap/upgrade is the biggest most important factor there is in figuring out what to go with. Once I figure out what Im going with, then like you said brakes/suspension all those other things. We pulled the L28 and tranny out today. More gutting to do this weekend, so we can start on the body/paint. I still have lots of time to figure it all out. The mechanics at the shop are as just as excited as I am, and just cant seem to wait, they just want to throw it all together and hoon the hell out of it seems lol...

 

The biggest most important thing I do is making sure that whatever I decide to go with, there are kits and things available going forward. Yes I have access to a complete auto shop and that helps with knowledgable people, but engineering new brackets and things takes time, where as I would rather just buy (and I realize that costs money, but you take the guess work out of it).

 

I appreciate your guidance and words of wisdom

[_Donovan_]

Well, we are all young once, Good Luck.

 

 

 

 

PS, I think you missed the point. There are safety reasons to upgrade or fix some things, or it doesn't matter if you have 100 or 1000 hp.

[Pharaohabq]

AzGhost, Okay Sure, Select your engine. There are kits to install most engines. It just depends on what you decide to drop in. Like I was saying above, research the source for whatever you choose. You may be able to get the same engine type from a different vehicle, cheaper. As for kits, once you decide the engine, then look as shops like McKinney Motorsports for the install kits. You'll see you're going to pay $ for a kit. (I think their VQ kit is $600 for just the brackets/isolators) It's your Money, if the ease it worth it to you then go ahead. Remember you'll save a lot by getting a whole donor, rather than just the engine.

 

Too bad you didn't get to drive the car before putting $money and work into it. There's nothing like seeing what effect all your work has when you're done. When tearing it down, be careful with the panels/brackets etc. A lot of parts are getting to where they're plain unavailable, so keep that in mind when you're pulling it apart. NOS stuff is expensive. most of the other parts won't be in any better shape than you have already. The Classified on here, or Ebay are a couple great sources though.

 

_Donovan_ makes a really good point. Somethings will really NEED to be fixed/upgraded just from the safety aspect: Brakes for instance, Your stock brakes may be functioning, but you don't know the history, and they are 35+ years old. So though the seals may still function they may be only a few stops from failing. Maintinance on a classic vehicle includes addressing what could be getting old.

 

Many of us on these websites have been around Z's since we were just kids. We freely give our advice based on our experience in hopes we can help people with their cars and keep more of these cars on the road. While at the same time helping people save money. If you decide not to take our advice, then that's fine, it's your car and your money. we're just trying to help. There's tons of info on here, read read read, see what people have done. use the search box. download the FSM. Have fun with your project. Oh and most importantly, Post us some pictures!

 

Phar

[Pharaohabq]

 

...

So the question is, if you had to do it all over again, what would you do?

 

Oh I realized I never answered this part. If I had to do it all over again, Aside from getting the entire donor car, I would have gone with the VQ37 rather than the VQ35HR, only for the fact that I keep drooling over the newer engine (both use 6 speed trans, the VQ37 has synchro match tranny, and 350HP vs 305HP) But it was barely available when I started my swap though.

[Gollum]

 

Barn find? Lets see proof