perzn Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) hey guys, i have been doing alot of research and i have a few questions. I bought a r200 from a 280z, 3.545 gear ratio. I installed an obx quaife(i already swapped the internal helical gears in the obx), i installed the side bearing caps and shims in the correct places. The diff was making noises from +45 mph and up on coast and drive. I checked the gear pattern with gear compound and According to the pattern my pinion depth is far from the ring gear and backlash is correct. I bought all of the seals and bearings including the pinion pilot bearing special ordered from nissan. a Z shop quoted $550 which i think is pretty high. I know the kentmore tools would cost me over a grand, but what options do i have to set pinion depth? can i use proforms pinion depth tool? has anyone had experience with this tool on the r200? or suggest a different tool? heres a link for a proform tool setup seems legit but would like someones input http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/5ohcpa/cpa5ohtech010.htm your help is greatly appreciated, thanks Edited November 7, 2012 by perzn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 if you move the pinion to the rear you will decrease the gear backlash and possably have to re-shim the diff side-to-side.I dont remember factory specs but if you get .010 to.015 backlash on the ring gear wirh a good tooth pattern contact it shouldnt make noise.You really should only need a dial indicator to measure the back lash . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perzn Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 if you move the pinion to the rear you will decrease the gear backlash and possably have to re-shim the diff side-to-side.I dont remember factory specs but if you get .010 to.015 backlash on the ring gear wirh a good tooth pattern contact it shouldnt make noise.You really should only need a dial indicator to measure the back lash . correct, i checked back lash with a dial indicator also, after multiple times i mostly received a readings of .19 mm of backlash. heres a few pictures of the backlash reading and gear compound test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perzn Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Well, i called proform and that tool isn't compatible with the r200's. Any other suggestions? And Does anyone know the standard selective washer size for pinion depth on 280z r200's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I think your backlash is correct. Supposed to be something like .005 to .0072 and you're at .007. Check the FSM to make sure, but I think I'm right. Generally speaking the pinion depth doesn't change unless you pull it out and change the shims. Even when swapping from one gear ratio to another, the pinion depth shim usually doesn't change much. I know MikeC has used a pinion depth gauge on an R200, and I think probably any of the tools will work if you get (or make) the right adapter. Really though the way that works is you start with a diff that has the pinion depth set correctly, then you pull the pinion and put a new one in and set the depth back to what you had before. For your situation I'd just fix it with the pattern. This might be of some assistance: http://www.ringpinion.com/Content/HowTo/TechnicalInstructions/Yukon_Installation_Kit_Instructions.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perzn Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) I think your backlash is correct. Supposed to be something like .005 to .0072 and you're at .007. Check the FSM to make sure, but I think I'm right. Generally speaking the pinion depth doesn't change unless you pull it out and change the shims. Even when swapping from one gear ratio to another, the pinion depth shim usually doesn't change much. I know MikeC has used a pinion depth gauge on an R200, and I think probably any of the tools will work if you get (or make) the right adapter. Really though the way that works is you start with a diff that has the pinion depth set correctly, then you pull the pinion and put a new one in and set the depth back to what you had before. For your situation I'd just fix it with the pattern. This might be of some assistance: http://www.ringpinion.com/Content/HowTo/TechnicalInstructions/Yukon_Installation_Kit_Instructions.pdf thanks jon, well, i purchased the r200 used and slapped on the obx, i just cant figure out the pinion depth with out some kind of tool. proform cant be used on our diffs according to proform, im curious on what MikeC used, i also found a universal tool from powerhouse around $190 and central tools universal tool which can range from $540 to $740 . hopefully i can get MikeC's input on which tool he used or maybe a good shim size to start off with and then i can play the guessing game with multiple times of assembling and disassembling to get the right gear pattern. Feels like i am down to those two options Edited November 8, 2012 by perzn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I know we have been discussing this on PM, but figured I would post some here. The universal pinion depth gauges will work universally. (Ha Ha!) but they lack any documentation on what specs/dimensions would be for an R200. You might have to use different pointers or extensions on the dial indicator to get where you need to go. The universal gauge uses the measurement from the cap mating surface to the bottom of the bearing bore minus the radius of the bearing race to establish where the centerline of the axle is in relation to the cap mating surface. Once you know that, you can measure from the mating surface to the pinion head to figure what dimensions you are working with. But those companies don't want to support something out of the box for their $100 tool which I understand. But in the case of replacing just a carrier, their should be no need to adjust the pinion depth. This is also true when replacing the bearings as they are so precisely made that the pinion depth will be the same as originally set. In the case of your diff, do we know if it was quiet before you performed the swap? I had a 4.56 12 bolt in a Camaro that made a ton of noise and it turned out to be carrier bearings and not the gears. In that case the noise changed based on how much load was on the axle in a turn. In the end the pattern is the ultimate determinate of whether the gears are setup correctly, but this can be a slow and arduouse process to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perzn Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 I know we have been discussing this on PM, but figured I would post some here. The universal pinion depth gauges will work universally. (Ha Ha!) but they lack any documentation on what specs/dimensions would be for an R200. You might have to use different pointers or extensions on the dial indicator to get where you need to go. The universal gauge uses the measurement from the cap mating surface to the bottom of the bearing bore minus the radius of the bearing race to establish where the centerline of the axle is in relation to the cap mating surface. Once you know that, you can measure from the mating surface to the pinion head to figure what dimensions you are working with. But those companies don't want to support something out of the box for their $100 tool which I understand. But in the case of replacing just a carrier, their should be no need to adjust the pinion depth. This is also true when replacing the bearings as they are so precisely made that the pinion depth will be the same as originally set. In the case of your diff, do we know if it was quiet before you performed the swap? I had a 4.56 12 bolt in a Camaro that made a ton of noise and it turned out to be carrier bearings and not the gears. In that case the noise changed based on how much load was on the axle in a turn. In the end the pattern is the ultimate determinate of whether the gears are setup correctly, but this can be a slow and arduouse process to get there. no i didn't know if the diff that I am working with made noise before the lsd swap. I did get it cheap though, so it probably did have that problem:/ I have my diff at school at the moment, since i am taking a transmission and differential class. will get it open and take detailed pics and further diagnosis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast-datsun Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Back-lash is only 1 test you need to do. correct tooth engagement or white lube test is the most critical as both ring gear and pinion can be off and have good back-lash....$550 for a job done right is a good price..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wfritts911 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 That gear pattern is your whine right there, his carrier bearings might not be great, but that pattern is terrible. You don't need a special tool to check pinion depth, the gear pattern will tell you what the gears want. All you need is some calipers to measure shims, a dial indicator for backlash, and a bearing puller and preferablly a press to get the bearings on and off, and a beam style inch pound torque wrench to measure pinion preload. You will probably need to locate some pinion and carrier shims that will fit the R200, and maybe a crush sleeve(Dunno how the R200s are setup). I'm a little rusty on my gear patterns as I haven't had to setup gears in over a year(Thank God!). But you will just need to change the pinion shims again and again(And changing carrier shims to spec backlash in each time) til you get an acceptable pattern. Although if you have never done it, it might be best to take it to a pro, it is a really tedius(sp?) job. In truth your best option is probably to just find another diff and swap the carrier in there. Although if the carrier is out of spec you might have the same problem with a different diff. -Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Being that it is a 3.54 and those are common (almost every manual 280Z had one) I'd just go find another one. Don't swap the ring gear either. Take the ring gear off and use the ring gear from the next 3.54 you get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perzn Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 alright well i took it to a shop called texas auto gear and the guy david has been doing diffs since 1983. he got it set up for me, also installed my new bearings and i just installed my diff yesterday. the pinion was just a tad bit too deep. got it all done for $200! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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