CrayZ Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 Regarding the star "walking" on the shaft - it's either supposed to be free to move around, or it's supposed to stay in one place. But walking to a new spot and getting stuck so tight that you have to bang it off with a hammer can't be right. It's either a cause of the problem, or a result of the problem. Might be worth focusing on how and why that happens. If the balls were pressing on the circlip, that force would be pushing against the star and cage, preventing it from getting stuck on the inner spline portion. Since the star is stuck, that suggests that the star walked doen the shaft first, got stuck, then held the balls against the clip until it popped out. I've found that the weird small stuff is sometimes the clue to solving the big problem. Good luck. This Is a good point. I think the star being wedged down the shaft is a direct result from after the failure. Once the incident occurred I got out and noticed massive movement back and forth. By the time I got it home 1-2 miles the axle would not slide inside the cup anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) Well guys.. I'm about out of suggestions here.. Everything is inline, tight, within tolerances etc. I'm have no clue what to do at this point.. I'm considering setting up a go pro under the car to see what happens, other than that I'm truly clueless as to how this can continue to occur. The only thing that seems off to me is the fact that the driver rear wheel sticks out farther towards the fender than the passenger does. Also the driver rear coilover adjustment ring sits almost a half inch lower to match the ride height of the passenger rear wheel. Edited January 16, 2013 by CrayZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 You really can't worry about how your car lines up to the fenders-your fenders have been cut and aftermarket flares have been installed. For rideheight, the best place to measure is the bottom of the rocker panels because that is a straight line. Plus 1/2 inch isn't gonna make or break you. My car isn't "square" at the fenders either and even my un-modified S10 truck isn't "square" from the factory. If you run out of interest in he diff/axle system that you have, the basic R200 system is a good option and is much simpler than what you have suffered thru. I've been in your situation and I feel your frustration-it is torture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) I'm going to take my trashed cups and weld in some circle peices of plate steel in place of the c clips. I figure it will keep the bearings inside the cup. I figure at this point I don't have anything to loose with the old cups. If it doesnt hold together I'm going to swap in a 200. Edited January 16, 2013 by CrayZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) You really can't worry about how your car lines up to the fenders-your fenders have been cut and aftermarket flares have been installed. For rideheight, the best place to measure is the bottom of the rocker panels because that is a straight line. Plus 1/2 inch isn't gonna make or break you. My car isn't "square" at the fenders either and even my un-modified S10 truck isn't "square" from the factory. If you run out of interest in he diff/axle system that you have, the basic R200 system is a good option and is much simpler than what you have suffered thru. I've been in your situation and I feel your frustration-it is torture. As far as the suspension is concerned your probably right. But I know for a fact that the driver rear tire does infact sit to the left it is very obvious when standing behind the car. I guess ill just have to live with it. If I decided to run the 200 what would you suggest as far as axles go? I think the 230 is a short nose so I would need to find a short nose 200 to keep my same driveshaft and mounts? I'd like to stay away from floating axles as they clearly aren't working well for me. What would be a good option to hold 450-500? I'm still very new to these rear end setups and un familiar with the differences in axles and diffs Edited January 16, 2013 by CrayZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) Yes, the R200 differential is strong enough. Edited January 17, 2013 by Xnke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 well dang I just lost a huge edit to that post, and I am not prepared to re-type it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 well dang I just lost a huge edit to that post, and I am not prepared to re-type it. Ha, I'm going to weld in the "upgraded" c clips and see what happens. If not, I found a clutch type long nose 200 with zx-t axles for 800 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 You did good getting an R200 with axles for that price! You really want the 4-bolt axles and you will need companion flanges to match. You (may) need to shorten the zx-t axles. The only way to know is to go thu the axle length verification process that I have described. I really think the smartest way to verify that the set up is the correct length is to check with the CV boots pushed up on the shafts so you can actually look down into the outer CV housing to be sure. Some cars need shortened axle shafts and some don't. If you need shortened shafts, I'd put out a parts wanted post fishing for forum members who bought JMoretensen's shortened shafts but never got around to using them-I'm sure you understand that a lot of folks can get burned out on these projects! The zx-t axle shafts don't "float;" they are fixed axially in the inner CV and all the dynamic length adjustability happens only at the outer CV - there is a lot less movement in the system. I'm hitting mine with slicks, a T56 with a stock LS2 and so far, so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 You will also need companion flange adaptors or modified companion flanges, to get the 4-bolt pattern right. I use modified companion flanges. The short axle shaft gets removed from the driver's side axle, and installed in the passenger side axle (can't swap diff stubs, different lengths) and the long passenger side axle gets dumped...short axle is front driver's axle shaft from a WD21 pathfinder 4WD (1990-1993), and a spacer. Your milage may vary, that's just how I did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 You will also need companion flange adaptors or modified companion flanges, to get the 4-bolt pattern right. I use modified companion flanges. The short axle shaft gets removed from the driver's side axle, and installed in the passenger side axle (can't swap diff stubs, different lengths) and the long passenger side axle gets dumped...short axle is front driver's axle shaft from a WD21 pathfinder 4WD (1990-1993), and a spacer. Your milage may vary, that's just how I did it. so your saying that you modified the companion flanges yourself instead of buying them from MM? and are you also saying that you did not need custom axles, you just used the one from a pathfinder and swapped the driver for passenger on the zx-t's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 You did good getting an R200 with axles for that price! You really want the 4-bolt axles and you will need companion flanges to match. You (may) need to shorten the zx-t axles. The only way to know is to go thu the axle length verification process that I have described. I really think the smartest way to verify that the set up is the correct length is to check with the CV boots pushed up on the shafts so you can actually look down into the outer CV housing to be sure. Some cars need shortened axle shafts and some don't. If you need shortened shafts, I'd put out a parts wanted post fishing for forum members who bought JMoretensen's shortened shafts but never got around to using them-I'm sure you understand that a lot of folks can get burned out on these projects! The zx-t axle shafts don't "float;" they are fixed axially in the inner CV and all the dynamic length adjustability happens only at the outer CV - there is a lot less movement in the system. I'm hitting mine with slicks, a T56 with a stock LS2 and so far, so good. Thats comforting to know becuase i have had it with with floating axles.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 One more thing fellas, ive been reading that the short nose R200 and R230 are the same lengths. Could i use all of my exsiting mounting hardware driveshaft, yada yada for a short nose 200? that would be great becuase i dont feel like starting over.. If i could pull the r230 out and bolt a short nose r200 in its place that would be awesome. IF this is possible is there a specific short nose r200 i should look for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) It is my understanding that you are gonna go thru everything you are now if you go with a short nose (lack of compatable stub axles and half-shafts). The R200 swap is proven and simple. If you go to a long nose R200, you will need to shorten your current driveshaft, or just buy one from JCI ($235?). I would avoid MM if you are already frustrated enough (unless you are into that sort of thing). Buy your 4-bolt companion flanges from Chequered Flag Racing, unless JMortensen still has some. What outer stub axle do you have (the one that goes thru the hub and gets torqued to over 200#)? It sucks you are going thru this, but if you got that car for the advertised price or less, you still got a good deal. So, hang in there. It's only money and you can't take it with you and the government won't let you pass it to your kids. In this country it is best to be "disabled" or plausibly destitute. Spend it all, then you can have 39% of mine. From what I hear I don't deserve it anyway. Edited January 17, 2013 by RebekahsZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) It is my understanding that you are gonna go thru everything you are now if you go with a short nose (lack of compatable stub axles and half-shafts). The R200 swap is proven and simple. If you go to a long nose R200, you will need to shorten your current driveshaft, or just buy one from JCI ($235?). I would avoid MM if you are already frustrated enough (unless you are into that sort of thing). Buy your 4-bolt companion flanges from Chequered Flag Racing, unless JMortensen still has some. What outer stub axle do you have (the one that goes thru the hub and gets torqued to over 200#)? It sucks you are going thru this, but if you got that car for the advertised price or less, you still got a good deal. So, hang in there. It's only money and you can't take it with you and the government won't let you pass it to your kids. In this country it is best to be "disabled" or plausibly destitute. Spend it all, then you can have 39% of mine. From what I hear I don't deserve it anyway. lol! the only thing that is bugging me is that i will have to change EVERYTHING! mustache bar, mounting hardware etc. (at least i think) Im not sure what stub axles i have? not sure how to tell Edited January 17, 2013 by CrayZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilC Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Hmm, ripping it all out doesn't seem like the right answer to me. Check out my pics in this old thread: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/75896-axle-stop-mm-q45-diff-problem/ Starting at the axles stops - your axles are def more at an angle with the stops than mine are. I have about 15k miles on this axles setup and plenty track days on them and they have never busted apart. Like I stated before, 1TUFFZ also has as many and if not more track days and only did what you did once because he had too much camber. Starting off with that basic info, what do we see is causing your extreme angle during full compression and droop. That is where we start, too many people on the site running this setup to just thrown in the towel. Measure your strut housing length, I am curious to know the distance from your stub axle to the gland nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 Hmm, ripping it all out doesn't seem like the right answer to me. Check out my pics in this old thread: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/75896-axle-stop-mm-q45-diff-problem/ Starting at the axles stops - your axles are def more at an angle with the stops than mine are. I have about 15k miles on this axles setup and plenty track days on them and they have never busted apart. Like I stated before, 1TUFFZ also has as many and if not more track days and only did what you did once because he had too much camber. Starting off with that basic info, what do we see is causing your extreme angle during full compression and droop. That is where we start, too many people on the site running this setup to just thrown in the towel. Measure your strut housing length, I am curious to know the distance from your stub axle to the gland nut. Trust me the last thing i want to do is scrap all this stuff.. Touching on a couple issues first id like to bring to light the "star" that slides over the axle. Today when i was pulling apart a q45 axle i noticed that the axle had a shelf on it that pinned the star up against the snap ring preventing the star from moving AT ALL.. Now with that said, here is my axle... There is nothing stopping the star from wedging itself down the shaft, Which it has done already.. I didnt pay much attention to it becuase i thought it was suppose to float on the ends of the axle. Now with that said i am machining a groove just below where the star sits when it is pressed up against the existing snap ring. I will be filling that groove with another snap ring to lock the star in place at the furthest possible position away from the center of the axle. I agree that there is something not right about the angles of the shafts.. I would love to address this and any suspension problems that might be present. I tried my best to understand what you where asking me to measure and this is what i came up with. I measured from that shelf that you can clearly see all the way to the bottom of the "strut housing" im going to call it. I pretty much measured the "tube" and came up with 12 & 5/8" the kicker is that the passenger side measures 12 & 3/8".......... NOT happy abou that. Now in case there was any confusion I also took this measurement. driver measured 10.5" passenger measured slightly over 10 & 1/8" I hope this is what you were looking for. If not just give it to me in retard terms i wont be odfended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Oh yeah, check this out! I had some scrap cups lying around so i figured.. why not bet the bearings dont round these edges off! Im not done with them yet. I couldnt get the mig to function properly so the weld are shit for now. I still havent decided if i want to run them.. BUT i probably will. Edited January 18, 2013 by CrayZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilC Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Hmm, I can't tell from the pics but are the strut tubes plum? Might just be the angle of the picture but wondering why the big metal patch over the strut tube. Honestly if they were really out of plum the strut wouldn't fit inside the tube without being "forced" in. I would check with JohnC about your measurements since he does provide the service of sectioning strut tubes. I am wondering if the overall length of the tube is at play here? My diff looks like it is mounted slightly higher than yours but take that with a grain of salt. Lets see if your new fix will help any. There def should be a snap ring in that grove which limits the axle travel from side to side but doesn't come into play before you hit the axle stops. I imagine that if the stops were not installed, all the "limited" side to side movement would be on that snap ring which would fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 Hmm, I can't tell from the pics but are the strut tubes plum? Might just be the angle of the picture but wondering why the big metal patch over the strut tube. Honestly if they were really out of plum the strut wouldn't fit inside the tube without being "forced" in. I would check with JohnC about your measurements since he does provide the service of sectioning strut tubes. I am wondering if the overall length of the tube is at play here? My diff looks like it is mounted slightly higher than yours but take that with a grain of salt. Lets see if your new fix will help any. There def should be a snap ring in that grove which limits the axle travel from side to side but doesn't come into play before you hit the axle stops. I imagine that if the stops were not installed, all the "limited" side to side movement would be on that snap ring which would fail. Weird thing is that the cir clip keeps failing.. even after my proper measurements. It should be working fine with the new spacers. Ill check with john about the lengths. As far as the diff being lower than yours i sure would like to know why.. The big aluminum mount that holds the rear of the diff is an off the shelf unit. It should put the diff in only one spot.. also im not sure what you mean by if the suspension is "plum" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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