Coilover & Ride Height Q's - Integra DC2 or AE86 or Ground Control etc

[riske]

Hello from the UK!

I've started to restore my rusty Datsun 206Z and having done a lot of research about suspension and coilovers I am in a bit of a pickle.

 

Now from my understanding there are several ways of getting the Z lower. I've read through numerous threads about strut sectioning and also info on the 'screw on' McKinney (there are others) set up.

 

However it doesn't seem to clarify how low you can go and level of adjustment with each set up. I would like to know the height adjustment and capabilities of each set up please.

 

I plan to fit a 1JZ circa 400bhp in future but in the meantime will be running triple webers. Does this effect what front springs i should go for?

What set up do you suggest?

Do I get the McKinney Sleeves and camber plates then get some other coilovers to screw in? Not a fan of Meguns. We have these in UK that a lot of the drift boys use - http://www.hsdcoilovers.com/

 

I want my car to go this low but not this low all the time - http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/05/the-peoples-choice-sunnys-240z/

I dont know how much higher this can be adjusted from how it sits now.

 

Using the car the odd weekend for fast road, drift and maybe the odd track day. Maybe even Nurburg.

Thanks in advance

[johnc]

You want a Hellaflush look and that's not something we're interested in here at HybridZ.  Probably a few sites like Zdriver, Zcar, etc. are better places for this question.

[morbias]

riske - you can build up your own adjustable setup with parts from Rally Design here in the UK, it will cost a fraction of what other solutions are priced at. http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/index.php?cPath=2243_2244

 

You'll need sectioned struts and some really short shocks rather than the usual AW11 rear shocks, I think people have used VW Golf or Integra shocks for seriously lowered cars, not sure what year/model they were from though.

 

Also roll center adapters (bump steer spacers) to get the control arms back to a reasonable angle.

 

Drifting is not going to happen unless you do some extensive modifications to the front suspension, you just can't get enough steering lock with the way S30s are designed.

Edited May 14, 2013 by morbias

[mattausten23]

Theres a ton of info out there. If you don't want to run megans, choose a coilover of your choice and and have a machine shop make threaded coilover sleeves for you and camber plates. You are going to have to weld these in. I used this technique and I love it. I can get almost as low as Sunnys Z and it still feels good but then I can raise it up a few inches for track days. Search "crazy octopus 240z" his build thread should come up and it shows coilover install really well. If you don't want to run s13 coilovers and want to run, say miata coilovers, its the same stuff. Pretty easy. Drifting is going to be hard like morbias said but still a super fun car to drive!

 

I like slammed Zs!

[riske]

You want a Hellaflush look and that's not something we're interested in here at HybridZ.  Probably a few sites like Zdriver, Zcar, etc. are better places for this question.

 Thanks John. Is that your personal preference or everyone on this forum?

 

 

riske - you can build up your own adjustable setup with parts from Rally Design here in the UK, it will cost a fraction of what other solutions are priced at. http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/index.php?cPath=2243_2244

 

You'll need sectioned struts and some really short shocks rather than the usual AW11 rear shocks, I think people have used VW Golf or Integra shocks for seriously lowered cars, not sure what year/model they were from though.

 

Also roll center adapters (bump steer spacers) to get the control arms back to a reasonable angle.

 

Drifting is not going to happen unless you do some extensive modifications to the front suspension, you just can't get enough steering lock with the way S30s are designed.

 

 

Thank you morbias for the advice. What kit do you run? I'm assuming your the same chap also on Zclub.net? Bit quiet over there isn't it?

 

 

Theres a ton of info out there. If you don't want to run megans, choose a coilover of your choice and and have a machine shop make threaded coilover sleeves for you and camber plates. You are going to have to weld these in. I used this technique and I love it. I can get almost as low as Sunnys Z and it still feels good but then I can raise it up a few inches for track days. Search "crazy octopus 240z" his build thread should come up and it shows coilover install really well. If you don't want to run s13 coilovers and want to run, say miata coilovers, its the same stuff. Pretty easy. Drifting is going to be hard like morbias said but still a super fun car to drive!

 

I like slammed Zs!

Matt you are a star, I appreciate the help. What gear are you running? Sounds like you get what I'm saying because I like it low but I would like to raise it when I need to. Especially if it isn't performing well. I just don't want to weld in all the kit and realise I am too low and can't raise the height. I don't mind using s13 coilovers but I heard Meguns weren't that good. Info on exactly what your set up is would be great!

 

Also I realise that the steering lock would be an issue and I'm not tying to get into competitive drifting.

 

We have good coilovers called HSDs that I suppose I could get threaded sleeves made for. Similar to the McKinney adapters where you can screw the coilover down into without effecting the preload or damping travel.

[NamorNhoj]

I'm also curious about these options.

 

Personally, I'm curious to see photo comparisons / reviews on the ways that you all went about your coilover setups.

 

A lot of me is thinking / noticing that the bastardized Integra / Miata coilover swaps are done cheaply and for purely aesthetic reasons.  However, I'm concerned that after spending a lot of money on a coilover setup (which I'm more than happy to do), I won't be left with enough adjustability in the height department. (not looking to slam the car, but definitely want it significantly lowered).

 

Make sense??

[kiwi303]

 Thanks John. Is that your personal preference or everyone on this forum?

 

It's what the forum was originally established for, by a set of engineering types fleeing from the "Form before Function" neons and decals hellaflush crowd on the existing forums who wanted to establish a hardcore engineering and modification "Function defines Form" forums dedicated to helping extract USEFUL performance orientated modifications.

 

There are reasons for lowering cars for aerodynamic and handling reasons, those are discussed on this forum heavily, lowering just for looks with no handling improvements in mind are anathema to the origins of the forum. While such is occasionally discussed, the most common response is as you got, go find a Form obsessed forum and leave this Function obsessed forum be.

[riske]

It's what the forum was originally established for, by a set of engineering types fleeing from the "Form before Function" neons and decals hellaflush crowd on the existing forums who wanted to establish a hardcore engineering and modification "Function defines Form" forums dedicated to helping extract USEFUL performance orientated modifications.

 

There are reasons for lowering cars for aerodynamic and handling reasons, those are discussed on this forum heavily, lowering just for looks with no handling improvements in mind are anathema to the origins of the forum. While such is occasionally discussed, the most common response is as you got, go find a Form obsessed forum and leave this Function obsessed forum be.

 

Ok now I understand. I havent said once that I'm after Hellflush look.

The FUNCTION I am after is to be able to lower my car to look good and raise it when I want it perFORM. That's a better approach to it

 

Namor, I hear what you are saying and you have a point. The DC2/Miata setup did seem to be done as a cost saving method. Are these setups able to take the abuse of track days whilst having the ability to adjust to the right height.

 

Looking forward to hearing back from mattausten

[kiwi303]

I would suspect for the ability to raise and lower the car within a REASONABLE timeframe, just make up two coilover sets, one set up for your performance orientated height so you can have fun driving to shows, track days and just putting your foot down on weekends. Once you arrive at the shows, just jack it all up and swap the coilover sets to your lowered system.

 

Four coilovers and four trolley jacks would fit in the boot as you drive to and from the shows, and for the amount of driving done at shows, the camber change of dropping the car won't have that much effect on your tyre wear or safety.

[morbias]

 

Thank you morbias for the advice. What kit do you run? I'm assuming your the same chap also on Zclub.net? Bit quiet over there isn't it?

 

Yeah that's me, I read various Z car sites but only post on a couple! I would avoid zcar to be honest, most new people seem to get mauled for no good reason over there

 

I haven't sorted my suspension out yet, I'm planning on getting the rest of the car finished first so I know what I have to work with weight wise. Thinking of making up my own adjustable setup with the Rally Design stuff, effectively the same as the Ground Control setup but a fraction of the cost.

[johnc]

The FUNCTION I am after is to be able to lower my car to look good and raise it when I want it perFORM. That's a better approach to it

Sorry, not possible.  A ride height change of more then 1" either way requires an alignment (toe and camber) at a minimum.  You will also encounter binding issues with the sway bars, bumpsteer issues with the steering, and you won't be able to run bumpstops if your goal is to run the car on the ground.  That will generally destroy Tokicos, KYB, and most other general street shocks.  You should pick one style and optimize the suspension for that style.

 

And yes, HybridZ is about function over form and most of us are engineers, fabricators, and other folks who would rather go fast then look good.

[RebekahsZ]

I have had coilovers for years and the purpose of my car has migrated a lot over the twenty years of love/hate my z and I have shared. The first thing we all should do is be honest with ourselves about our goals for each of our cars, recognizing that our personal situations change over time. It is cheaper on the long run to do whatever johnc says, because his stuff works at the track. But you sure dont have to. Over the years I started with stock springs, then cut them, kybs, then did coilovers with Illuminas going to progressively stiffer settings. Next set of shocks will be konis from johnc and 400-ish lb springs. Now, the real issue with changing your ride height regularly is setting toe-in up front everytime you adjust ride height. If you know of a quick and easy and accurate way to do that in a little two car garage with four bicycles and a lawn mower-please teach me because I try to limit my alignment budget to about twice a year. Otherwise I would experiment with the coilovers a lot more.

[mattausten23]

I'm running stance coilovers with and had a machine shop make my rear strut sleeves.

 

I'm more function>form and I totally agree with John about the alignment. I think there is a way around it though, and this may sound stupid but I'm thinking out loud here, why not just keep track of where your coilovers are at when you get the car aligned for the track, dump it for cruising, then raise it back up where you had it at alignment when you track it? Probably the dumbest thing anyone has heard, but it works in my head.Haha

[johnc]

That can work and I've done it before.  But, after a couple ride height changes you'll get off on the adjustment and have to do a proper alignment to get things back on track.  With a few tools you can do the basic alignment needed (camber and toe) in about 1/2 hour if you've got a level garage floor.  But, very few folks actually do that.  Most "adjustable" suspensions get set on one position and stay there for life.

[riske]

I'm running stance coilovers with and had a machine shop make my rear strut sleeves.

 

I'm more function>form and I totally agree with John about the alignment. I think there is a way around it though, and this may sound stupid but I'm thinking out loud here, why not just keep track of where your coilovers are at when you get the car aligned for the track, dump it for cruising, then raise it back up where you had it at alignment when you track it? Probably the dumbest thing anyone has heard, but it works in my head.Haha

 

It makes sense. Maybe put a little marker on the bolts so you know how far to turn etc. 

 

When you got the machine shop to make your sleeves - bottom part will be 2" id for 240z strut and for the top part, did you just measure the diameter of the threaded bottom part of the megans and thread id then tell them to make it about 6inches long?

I like the ability to lower the car without effecting preload etc by screwing the coilover body into the sectioned strut.

 

My main question is that I want the ability to slam the car but also have enough adjustability to raise it again if I hate it. I am struggling to source LCAs etc here in the UK. I'll have to import them from US.

[rooger82]

Riske,

 

When I first came on here I was looking to do the same thing with my Z as I do want to show it. But then it progressed into something I really enjoyed driving. And now I am trying to go for somewhat of a median for both. Car will not be as low as it was before and will not be cambered like crazy. The modding has also gone to more functional parts as I will be planning a stroker build soon.

There is a wealth of knowledge on here and although I don't post much I spend a lot of time just reading what all these guys have done, afterall were not all engineers but we can learn a lot from all the time and effort they have put into the car.

[mattausten23]

I am unsure about your question but I ordered the camber plates off ZCCJDM.com. My rear strut tubes are 7 inches long I believe. I measured the width of the strut and got a steel tube that was slightly wider than the strut and thick so that the machine shop had some material to work with when making the threads. While welding you want to make sure not to heat the metal too much because you might warp the metal which would cause the coilover not to thread all the way down. I also used gussets all around.

 

I'm sorry I don't remember all the dimensions, I did this a while ago. I would say that I have great adjustability although I wish I got my front tubes made instead of using the ones that came with the coilovers so that I can make them longer. I always just slam the car for meets then raise it back up for driving around town.