1982 Alignment Problems

[Connor280ZX]

I've gotten my cars wheels aligned three times at the local shop. First time was for replacing steering rack bushings, second time was for replacing the rest of the bushings and this most recent time after replacing the tires. I've gotten it back each time with the car pulling to the right. Holding the wheel rougly 15-20 degrees to the left keeps it straight. Any less, it wanders to the right. I've been using 205/70/R14 tires. Before i bought the car, the ignition switch was replaced. Could someone have put the steering wheel back on the column improperly?

 

Most recent alignment slip attached.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Connor280ZX

[BluDestiny]

That toe on the left tire. It looks like almost half a degree of positive toe is pushing you in. Have you noticed that tire wear out faster than your other tires?

[Connor280ZX]

The reason I had the tires replaced was due to cracking on the sidewalls (they were 9 years old).

I didn't notice a wear pattern on the fronts, but I wasn't paying attention to the tread much.

[NewZed]

I burned through my first set of new tires way too fast trying to use toe to correct for worn wheel bearings.  If you're on a well-travelled road it wil have ruts, and the wheels will try to follow the ruts.  Worn bearings let the toe adjustment change as you're driving.  Most shops check for looseness but some just know how to put the car on the rack and run the machine.

[Connor280ZX]

I burned through my first set of new tires way too fast trying to use toe to correct for worn wheel bearings. If you're on a well-travelled road it wil have ruts, and the wheels will try to follow the ruts. Worn bearings let the toe adjustment change as you're driving. Most shops check for looseness but some just know how to put the car on the rack and run the machine.

Do you suggest that I jack the front end up and check for play in the wheels?

[NewZed]

I check mine with the wheels on the ground.  Grab the top of the wheel and shake back and forth.  Clicking noises from the hub area are a sign.  But you could get misled by other parts moving around, like brake parts.  You could also go by the FSM procedure and retorque the nuts, then check rotational drag.  Just retorquing the nuts might tighten things up to where you know it was an issue, or just checking tightness of the nuts.  Loose is bad.

 

If you have to ask though, you might want to get some help.  I hadn't been working on cars for quite a few years when I got mine and it took me a while to get my mechanical "touch" back.

[Connor280ZX]

The wheels seem to be on very tight. No clicks or creaks when shaking them vigorously. Taking another look at the data sheet, these numbers are starting to bother me. Why would you have 0.44 Toe on the rear left, and then -0.13 on the rear right?

[BluDestiny]

That's what I was saying, there is a lot of positive toe on the rear left wheel, that needs to be corrected, it can be from either worn wheel bearing, bad bushings, or a bent mounting point. A good alignment shop should be able to tell you which it is.

[Connor280ZX]

That's what I was saying, there is a lot of positive toe on the rear left wheel, that needs to be corrected, it can be from either worn wheel bearing, bad bushings, or a bent mounting point. A good alignment shop should be able to tell you which it is.

Yeah, and being highlighted in red meaning its out of the reccomended range. I've had a few problems in the left rear area before. I've had a siezed parking brake cable and a bent/warped rotor (was like this when i bought the car). It also had a 215/70 on that wheel when the rest were 205/70's. Looking under the car all the bushings look good. From what i can tell nothing looks bent, though i've been under the rear of my car dozens of times and never noticed anything that looked off.

[HowlerMonkey]

You have toe in on one rear wheel and toe out on another causing a thrust angle.......how much those numbers affect your car, I don't know.

 

I do know that having toe in on one rear wheel and toe out on another will cause the car to dogtrack and the the steering wheel will be off center because of the rear toe difference regardless of how the fronts are pointed.

 

Rear toe differences used to screw up a lot of guys who did two wheel alignments instead of 4 wheel and they later had to center the steering wheel by adjusting the front afterwards by carrying wrenches on their test drives and turning the tie rods until the wheel was centered.

 

In your case, though, the rear toe issue would normally be accompanied with a steering wheel that pointed to the right of center  when your car was headed down the road straight ahead........but with a slight dogtrack.

 

I'm not a fan of any rear toe out at all and feel it's dangerous.

 

 I also don't remember if you can adjust the rear toe in the 280zx but my M30 has an almost identical rear suspension crossmember in which you can.

 

I would think any competent alignment guy would have checked if it had rear toe adjustment capability and gotten your rear toe straightened out.

[Connor280ZX]

You have toe in on one rear wheel and toe out on another causing a thrust angle.......how much those numbers affect your car, I don't know.

 

I do know that having toe in on one rear wheel and toe out on another will cause the car to dogtrack and the the steering wheel will be off center because of the rear toe difference regardless of how the fronts are pointed.

I would think any competent alignment guy would have checked if it had rear toe adjustment capability and gotten your rear toe straightened out.

I guess this shop i took my car to just plain screwed up. These are brand new tires, and i really dont want them to break-in all wierd due to this alignment, so untill i can get my car in to a REAL shop i'd maybe read into adjusting the rear toe myself, just as a temporary solution. 

 

EDIT: Steering wheel now vibrates over 45 MPH.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Connor280ZX

[BluDestiny]

There is no adjustability in the rear suspension of a 280zx, most effects are induced from incorrect suspension geometry (bent mounting points) or worn suspension items, such as bushings, shocks, or cut springs or something. Worst case scenario your frame is bent. I would get at some point after checking all the suspension items and failing t find a problem, get it on a frame rack.

 

Do you have any suspension upgrades?

[Connor280ZX]

There is no adjustability in the rear suspension of a 280zx, most effects are induced from incorrect suspension geometry (bent mounting points) or worn suspension items, such as bushings, shocks, or cut springs or something. Worst case scenario your frame is bent. I would get at some point after checking all the suspension items and failing t find a problem, get it on a frame rack.

 

Do you have any suspension upgrades?

Wow, well that opens up a whole new senario...

I'm running KYB Shocks, thats it. In the front however i'm running urethane steering rack, and sway bar bushings.

 

EDIT: I just remembered that there's a loud clunking sound coming from the rear left of the car every time i shift. I've gotten used to it, but its been there ever since i bought the car.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Connor280ZX

[HowlerMonkey]

I would slot it for adjustability of toe.

 

The M30 has a near identical setup and it has adjustability so I would think some slotting wouldn't hurt.

[BluDestiny]

Howler, do the m30 mounting points have a ridge to use with eccentric bolts? Or just a slot?

 

That clunking if probably you diff. When is the last time you changed the diff oil? If you haven't you can easily drain it, pop the cover off and check the gears for any wear, but I'm guessing its just excess lash from being 30+ yrs old.

 

The car hasn't been in any fender bender right? Clean title, po never said it was hit etc?

Edited December 26, 2013 by BluDestiny

[Connor280ZX]

That clunking if probably you diff. When is the last time you changed the diff oil? If you haven't you can easily drain it, pop the cover off and check the gears for any wear, but I'm guessing its just excess lash from being 30+ yrs old.

 

The car hasn't been in any fender bender right? Clean title, po never said it was hit etc?

The diff oil was recently changed when I had the pinion seal replaced. There have been no collisions on record. The car came with a hood from a '79, which worries me a bit, but that's the front of the car.

[HowlerMonkey]

Here is a thread where someone replaced the rubber bushings with harder ones and it shows some pretty harsh labor.

 

http://forums.f31club.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2916&start=165

 

http://www.garymolitor.com/300zx/cambermod/Camber_mod-20.jpg

 

Here is a picture of the "shoulders" that act to keep the eccentric washer centered but in this picture, they have simply cut them off of inner z31 pickup point and rewelded them on the outer pickup points 90 degrees so they can adjust camber.

 

The shoulders themselves aren't really responsible for keeping it located when tightened down but rather for adjustment but there is something to be said for using them for peace of mind.

[Connor280ZX]

Here is a thread where someone replaced the rubber bushings with harder ones and it shows some pretty harsh labor.

 

http://forums.f31club.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2916&start=165

 

http://www.garymolitor.com/300zx/cambermod/Camber_mod-20.jpg

 

Here is a picture of the "shoulders" that act to keep the eccentric washer centered but in this picture, they have simply cut them off of inner z31 pickup point and rewelded them on the outer pickup points 90 degrees so they can adjust camber.

That's some really good info, but this is my daily driver and I'm not quite comfortable getting fab work done on the suspension to improve performance. But I will remember this once I get a track Z car.

[Connor280ZX]

Just dug out an alignment slip from July after I had the steering rack bushings installed. As you can see, much has changed.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Connor280ZX

[Connor280ZX]

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