HELP verifying everything is right

[konradlip]

Hi I recently bought a 280z with a l28et with a NA dizzy and MS1 v3. Can someone verify that the soldering is correct and let me know where I should connect my dizzy. Thanks

 

[NewZed]

Astounding.  Incredible.  Amazing.  Something new will always come along.  Gobsmacked.

 

 

This might help - http://www.megamanual.com/index.html

[konradlip]

I dont have hours to look thought all those information. I already figured out that the long cable connector is done correctly just in a different way. What I need to know is what that little connector in the middle is doing?

Edited April 4, 2014 by konradlip

[NewZed]

I dont have ours to look thought all those information. 

 

It just gets better...

 

You need to at least put some minutes in if you're going to ask someone else to do some work for you.  A better description than the "little connector in the middle" would be a great place to start.  Find the numbers on the circuit board or use Photoshop to draw a circle.

Edited April 4, 2014 by NewZed

[konradlip]

This thing. 

[NewZed]

Open the Megamanual link, click "V3 Assembly", use "CTRL-F" to open a text search box (if you're using Windows), type "TSEL" in to the box and see where it takes you.  Looks like you're set up for the VR sensor that is used in the distributor you asked about.  You'll have to look around a little more to see if you want your VR input to be inverted.

 

 

52. Select the tach input circuit with jumpers:

 

For the VR sensor:

• Jumper VRIN to TACHSELECT on the bottom side of the PCB (near the DB37, opposite the heat sink.)
• Jumper TSEL to VROUT (Or VROUTINV if you want the VR input to be inverted) on the bottom side of the PCB, near the center.

OR (Do NOT install both sets of jumpers, chose one set or the other!)

For the Hall sensor, optical sensor, coil negative terminal or points:

• Jumper XG1 to XG2 on the bottom side of the PCB, near the 40 pin socket,
• Jumper OPTOIN to TACHSELECT on the bottom side of the PCB, near the DB37 connector, opposite the heat sink.
• Jumper TSEL to OPTOOUT on the bottom side of the PCB, near the center.

 

[seattlejester]

The place where you connect the NA dizzy to megasquirt is no where. You need a turbo distributor or crank wheel at the minimum.

[konradlip]

then how it the whole thing working? why is the whole thing set up for a VR sensor. Can the dizzy my used as one?

[NewZed]

It means you're using batch mode for injection, and a single coil for spark.  The distributor is getting the spark to the right plugs.  Your distributor's VR is being used by MS.  Your setup is one level up from the simplest.

 

You're going to spend hours on the forum asking one question at a time.  There's really no way around reading on the DIYAutotune and Megamanual sites.

 

Or Cramer and Hoffmann have written a nice book on the fundamentals of electronic engine management.  Not that spendy.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Performance-Fuel-Injection-Systems-HP1557/dp/1557885575

[seattlejester]

Was the car running when you bought it?

 

If you have a turbo motor, you need the turbo distributor/turbo ignition setup. What year is the motor? What year is the NA dizzy from? In other words, if your car does indeed have an NA dizzy (I just looked through the FSM, doesn't look like any of them came with opticals except the turbo's), and the housing or rotor is not modified to send a signal instead of lighting off the spark plugs, then it is entirely possible that your car is running fuel injection control only. So as stated, nowhere to plug in your NA dizzy.  If it does somehow have an optical sensor then all of my reasoning is moot, head straight down to the bottom sentence, and see if the optical wheel is 54mm and order one if the PO did not. The VR circuit I believe is the same for optical and that is how they are getting a signal.

 

Megasquirt can get RPM from the negative terminal off a coil like a tachometer does, but it will not know where TDC is and thus cannot do ignition timing. You need a way of telling megasquirt what location the crank is in, thus a wheel of some sort that has a missing tooth or a single tooth or a gap where it can let the ECU know when it is at a specific point. 

 

You need a turbo distributor and potentially oil shaft from 82-83, or the crank pulley and crank sensor from an 81. Either that, or you can put a crank trigger wheel and find a location to mount a sensor to read off of it. If you have the optical distributors you can order a 54mm wheel that megasquirt can easily read through diyautotune. 

Edited April 4, 2014 by seattlejester

[konradlip]

The dizzy is from a NA 280zx. I have no idea how the whole thing is set up that the car is actually running but Ill try to do the timing tomorrow and see what happens.

[seattlejester]

I just took a quick peak through the FSM's doesn't look like any of them are connected to the ECCS, so they are not a triggering type of wheel.

 

I'm betting the car has separate fuel and separate ignition control. Basically your ignition will not change. Megasquirt cannot communicate with your dizzy. Right now the only information regarding engine speed you are getting is from the negative of the coil so that it basically knows the speed your engine is turning at and can fire in a batch of fuel for every 6th signal.

 

If you don't have plans on reading through the manual and getting familiar with the setup, it may be better not to involve the ignition portion of the control. You won't get the best performance/economy/adjustability out of megasquirt, but having fixed distributor should be good enough to run around with as long as you aren't pushing too much boost. 

[konradlip]

Well i do want to get the turbo dizzy once i find one but for now ill leave it be. btw i want to connect the fuel pump relay to megasuirt and my 1977 280 has the two relays in one. do i connect it to port 85 which is ground?

[NewZed]

 

Megasquirt can get RPM from the negative terminal off a coil like a tachometer does, but it will not know where TDC is and thus cannot do ignition timing. 

The passage from the Megamanual that you might be referring to is not really clearly written.  What they're saying is that MS needs a signal that is locked to crank position.  That's what locking the advance mechanisms in the distributor does.  The part about controlling off of the coil terminal is about injection control only, not ignition.  With a locked distributor feeding a signal to MS that is locked to crank position, you can do ignition timing control.  When the Megamanual guys say "tach signal" they just mean the signal that MS is using to know crankshaft speed.

 

"MegaSquirt-II™ controllers can be triggered from the negative terminal of the coil, just like MS-I, as long as MS-II™ is not being used to control the ignition timing. However, if you are controlling the ignition timing, then the tach signal must be fixed with respect to the crank position (not vary with the advance timing like the coil signal)."

[seattlejester]

Dude...that's exactly what I said.

 

Megasquirt CAN get RPM from the negative terminal off a coil like a tachometer does...

 

but it will not know where TDC is and thus CANNOT do ignition timing...

 

 

OP, bottom line, in your current configuration the dizzy won't communicate with megasquirt to control ignition. I think you understand that. Your options are either to fit the correct electrical signal generator for your motor (turbo dizzy for an 82-83 block, or the crank pulley and CPS for an 81 block). I'm pretty sure you can use the turbo dizzy on the 81, but I'm unsure if the 82-83 have the mounting location for the CPS. If you take a look at the pulley and see teeth, then you are in luck, you will just need to buy a cps sensor, diyautotune has a selection you can choose from that are proven to work with megasquirt. You can also choose to mount a trigger wheel to the crank if you have an 82-83 instead of having to try and pull and re-install an 81 pulley (not sure if they are even compatible, would imagine so). I think leaving it alone for now is a good idea if that car is up and running. As long as you aren't running an aggressive fixed timing I think you will be fine for now. Definitely some power to be tapped there when the time comes.

 

Megasquirt does indeed ground the relay signal, so you would connect it to the ground wire of the signal wire on the fuel pump relay (I believe 86 actually), 85 is the main constant ground on most relays. I'm not too familiar with the double relay, what does the other output control? Megasquirt kicks on the relay for a couple seconds when you go to ignition on, and then turns the fuel pump on when you are running. If the second output is the horn or something of that nature, you would have to keep in mind that the horn would not be available while the car is off or non-running.

[konradlip]

ok thanks. The car has some sort of toothed wheel between the block and the pulley. It looks to be 60 teeth or so. For the relay I was looking online and I coulnt find anything that would point me to which is the correct path, but from the diagram it looks like its the only ground. The other part of the relay is ignition BTW

 

[konradlip]

Now I'm on a quest to find a turbo dizzy with the oil pump gear. To the junkyard!!!!! 

[NewZed]

Re Post #15 - I quoted what you said, but interpreted what was said differently.  The MS igniton control algorithm calculates ahead to control dwell and advance.  All it needs is to know where the crankshaft is in its rotation.

 

The page linked below, about using the Pertronix Ignitor in a locked distributor, probably describes it best.  This is said often, but the Megamanual and DIY information is scattered, poorly organized, misleading, full of holes and just really hard to figure out.  Even the page I link here, labeled as a Pertronix-oriented page, is really just about using the VR input to use a locked distributor to control ignition timing.  From the page "When you do this, the PerTronix functions as a sensor for the MegaSquirt, with the MegaSquirt firing the coil."  Pertronix is a tiny piece of it, just another sensor, and the page label is probably putting off many people that could use the information, with other sensors to the VR input.

 

It all boils down to getting a consistent solid signal in to MS that lets it know where the crankshaft is positioned.  

 

http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/using_megasquirt_with_pertronix_ignitor.htm

Edited April 5, 2014 by NewZed

[konradlip]

ok thanks. ill try to figure this out. 

[konradlip]

BTW what would be better. To get the sensor and the trigger wheel or try to get the turbo dizzy?