Scottie-GNZ Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 Here is some technical info you all might find useful. In the list of kits at the bottom, the Steve Chlupsa kit is a popular and proven one among the Buick turbo crowd. http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/tech/alcohol.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruxGNZ Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 I was going to go with alchohol injection on my GN engine, but have since heard word that it isn't the smartest thing to do, because in my location, we have reformulated fuel. I haven't researched this yet. Do any of you have information on this? !M! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 Sparky, I think you're overengineering it a bit. Two nozzles feed a Supra Turbo fine with the proper pressureso I don't think you need 6 nozzles. I'm also pretty sure the NOS nozzles are a bit too rough - there are better nozzles out there I think. I know someone buildingselling a kit for $300 that would have everything you need except control device and tank. I'm considering it myself but don't yet "need" it. The programmable box you've talked about sounds good - can it pulse a solenoid like an injector by any chance? If so the spray would be proportional... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 ?overengineering? i didnt think that term was aloud on hybridz? i love to overengineer things..i do enjoy simplicity...but i also love the "oh-sh!t" factor when i open the hood. the reason i was trying to stay away from a single or duel nozzle system before the throttle body is that the design of the Zs intake manifold leaves cylinder #1 and a little bit of #2 wanting more...and leaving #6 a little rich...if im running more boost than i should with my already huge intercooler...then i want to make darn sure that im not leaning out numbers 1&2. especially under the influance of alchohol PLUS: when (if ever) it comes time for a NOS system...then i already have a multiport system in place. not only would a duel inlet fogger at each port provide alchy at a set level...i could introduce more fuel at the same port (like ill ever really need it, but i want to make sure...than when and if i really do need it...its there...) overengineering is a good thing...thats what makes the supra motor so strong...or the skyline motor take so much before it needs anything. i like to do things once..even if it is a bit much. as far as the little black box goes...it pulses with each ignition signal it gets....so its a "batch fire" system in a way...it all depends on how you set it up. im not to concerned about it...because when i need the system to come one...is going to be a WOT under major boost...so im sure the RPMS will be up there enough to keep things even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 well gonan toss my .02 in i had a 69 firebird with 10:75 to 1 comp duel quads NOS and water injection the plate frame read "twice the throttle and two kinds of bottles" when i frist put the car together, i did not notice a change in the car on or off the water injection it had a 3:50 rear. later i got a set of 4:33 gears for the 9 inch rear i had with the water injection off i got 7mi to a gal of gas, no big shock with the water injection on i got 14 mi to the gal of gas, now that was a shock just my experience with water injection i had the edelbrock set up the draw back, if you park facing the wrong way on a hill your bottle ran emptyy into your motor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eric-z Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 could you buy a carburetor and run the water system through that on a turbo efi setup? like a draw through system for water instead of fuel on a turbocharged carbureted engine. just a thought.... eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest soulfly454 Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 ami mistakin or didnt there used to be and older car named a jet fire or something og that sort that had alky water injecction and i beleive it was turbo charged seems like i remeber reading about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Zen Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 chimed in a bit late here, but today while on a business trip flight today I happend to bring corky bell's "maximum boost" book and the couple of paragraphs he wrote on the subject says something along the line that water injection is not really necessary for the properly built turbo engine! I'll dig the book out tonight at the hotel and write down his words for anyone that doesn't have the book and post them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 Some info... http://www.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1882&highlight=methanol http://www.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=715&highlight=methanol http://www.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1754&highlight=methanol http://www.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1258&highlight=methanol http://www.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1515&highlight=methanol http://www.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1420&highlight=methanol http://www.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1407&highlight=methanol http://www.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=552&highlight=methanol Guy has been running Methanol for awhile now. The fuel system on his car, maxxed out, makes 500RWHP. At the boost levels he's running he's WELL over 500RWHP and he actually pulls back injector duty when the spray comes on. I'm going to be looking into this sort of setup myself this Summer. I'm hoping that warmer weather will bring TRACTION and will be looking for somehting to keep the temps down and octane UP 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8dats Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 i dont want to sound like a smart ass os a dumbass but what if someone wanted to run water injection.can they still get a nitrous kit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Your Car is Slow Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Water injection is a way of life for these turbo systems on bikes. They have higher compression, smaller displacement, and alot of heat to burn off, and some even make upwards of 450 - 550hp (on 1.2 and 1.3 liter engines if you can believe that) The water injection feature is a sub 500 dollar add on. Its pretty popular here in florida where an intercooler would be detrimental on a bike as its mounting location would block the radiator. A riding buddy of mine (and my neighbor) has a Turbo Hayabusa making 345hp@14psi(with water injection)....its pretty insane. http://www.velocityracing.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 It seems to me water/alcohol injection is a poor substitute for intercooling. The water/alcohol mixture possibly cannot increase the density of the air like an intercooler can (this is just me speculating..) It seems to me that reducing the cause of detonation by lowering the temperature is a more direct solution than displacing some of your air volume with stuff that just inhibits the burn. When the gasses explode in the combustion chamber, the H2O is super-heated and converted into steam, which expands. This increases downward force on the pistons. I read this somewhere on an unrelated subject. How much extra force is created, I dunno. At any rate, although H2O injection doesn't create a denser air charge, it causes greater expansion in the combustion chamber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I always learn something from you wise ones ' date=' repeat lone, water injection is not a crutch... oh well I'm used to tasting my own foot.. my bad...I know it'd be expensive, but how about a small fuel cell of race gas to fire extra injectors with (say 3-5 gals)? I know it'd cost out the butt, but if your not in it all the time, it's just waiting there? I know the alcohol mix would be cheaper by far though, just thinking out loud, thanks for the lesson. Regards, Lone Ps: Ahem, sorry just saw the 02 contamination, jeez, forget it, jedi mind trick, 'I never posted on this topic, they are not the droids your looking for'[/quote'] Tetraethyl lead is what's in race fuel in varying amounts. Adding just 1.8 ounces per galon raises octane by 5 points in your tank. It would take miniscule amounts of this stuff via on-demand injection and it's only 28 cents per ounce when purchased in quantity. Also... maybe short bursts of the stuff won't hurt O2 sensors?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Interesting point, but you do realize the discussion ended 3 years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I had and ran Edelbrocks varijection system. A buddy has it on his truck but doesn't use it. FYI my gale banks TT system has water injection, look at the blue nozzles in the turbo inlets. boost pressure enters the top of a 3 gallon tank and pushes water out the bottom throught the nozzles into the inlets of the turbo's. Seems kind of scary to me but the nozzles are a fogger type. We'll see if I even use that system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Interesting point, but you do realize the discussion ended 3 years ago? Yes, but this is interesting and worthwhile. I'm sorry to anyone here who might be offended by reviving an old thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I had and ran Edelbrocks varijection system. A buddy has it on his truck but doesn't use it. FYI my gale banks TT system has water injection' date=' look at the blue nozzles in the turbo inlets. boost pressure enters the top of a 3 gallon tank and pushes water out the bottom throught the nozzles into the inlets of the turbo's. Seems kind of scary to me but the nozzles are a fogger type. We'll see if I even use that system.[/quote'] What a great idea!! The turbos are cooled with the same H2O foggers:mrgreen: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNeedForZ Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 When the gasses explode in the combustion chamber, the H2O is super-heated and converted into steam, which expands. This increases downward force on the pistons. I read this somewhere on an unrelated subject. How much extra force is created, I dunno. At any rate, although H2O injection doesn't create a denser air charge, it causes greater expansion in the combustion chamber. In reality that's not the case since the heat is taken away from other product gases which in turn, cool and shrink in size(partial pressure of water increases, but partial pressure of other gases decrease). The only time when water injection increases horsepower is when it replaces fuel as chamber coolant. Like in a nitrous injection situation, instead of using a richer a/f ratio to supress detonation, water is injected to provide cooling and the a/f ratio is kept normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 In reality that's not the case since the heat is taken away from other product gases which in turn, cool and shrink in size(partial pressure of water increases, but partial pressure of other gases decrease). The only time when water injection increases horsepower is when it replaces fuel as chamber coolant. Like in a nitrous injection situation, instead of using a richer a/f ratio to supress detonation, water is injected to provide cooling and the a/f ratio is kept normal. Thanks for the clarification. Everything is always a trade off, isn't it? QUESTIONS: Does anyone know if using H2O injection with regularity... let's say every 100 miles without boost and at normal speeds... will remove carbon deposits thereby INCREASING ENGINE LIFE? This could even be an automated event controlled by the car's computer. What about just one or two daily higher doses and a hard punch of the throttle... will this help keep the internals bright and clean? Could this replace engine additives that supposedly prevent carbon build-up... or add to the final effects of these chemicals? What about at idle in heavy traffic with engines that tend to overheat... would H2O injection used at idle help to cool it down and PREVENT OVERHEATING IN TRAFFIC? Has anyone done a scientific study of the effects of water injection on an internal combustion engine from carb to exhaust exit accounting for corosion, carbon removal, molecular integrity of the metals? All silly questions I know... but I'm curious. WHAT IF we could double the engine life of ordinary (non-race/non-performance/mom-pop) daily drivers just by using H2O injection? Wouldn't that be amazing? I've heard stories of people DOUBLING MPG after adding H2O injection... could this be applied to everyday cars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spork Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 I'm not sure if you're planning on using water injection on an L-series engine or something else. Beware of the straight use of water.. I had been warned about how the particular aluminum alloy used in the L-series heads caused problems when using straight water. It leaches the copper (if memory serves me correct) from the head and will turn it into swiss cheese. I only used water for 1000-1500 or so and only under boost and I pulled the head for something (I can't remember why) and found the runners had pitting in them where they didn't before. I've never heard of this happen to any other tyoe of head other than the ones from the L-series. If you run a mix I was told you should be okay. I'm running straight methanol on my car using a moddified kit from www.devilsownonline.com I've got 6 M5 nozzles plumbed into the runners on my intake and I have my fuel injectors maxed out, so I'm using the methanol as additional fuel to be able to run big boost. It also does a darn good job of lowering intake temps. Once everything is sorted out, I'm going to up the nozzle size and actually start leaning the car out from regular gas and replace it with methanol. As an added benefit, it does keep the combustion chambers and piston tops fairly clean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.