Chickenman Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) Which are you referring to? I haven't messed with my ve table or ignition table. I'm trying to sort out this timing issue first before I get the rest in check. TunerStudio settings (Batch fire / wated spark or single coil) Settings under Basic Setup -> Tach Input / Ignition Settings: Spark mode: Toothed Wheel Ignition input capture: Rising Edge You have Falling Edge selected Spark output will depend on what output setup you’re using. BIP373s and QuadSparks both use Going High / Inverted.Getting this setting wrong can damage the ignition module and/or coils. If the ignition module or coils get hot with the key on and the engine off, turn the key off immediately and select the opposite output setting. Settings under Basic Setup -> Trigger Wheel Settings: Trigger wheel arrangement: Single wheel with missing tooth Trigger wheel teeth: 12 Missing Teeth: 1 Tooth #1 angle: 345 (This varies slightly between individual engines. Check with a timing light and adjust as needed.) You have 50 selected Wheel speed: Crank wheel You have Cam Wheel selected Edited March 30, 2017 by Chickenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Screen Capture from your .MSQ file. See the errors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggedgoods Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Screen Capture from your .MSQ file. See the errors? ScreenShot001.jpg I do now yes, but I thought that the distributor rotates at cam speed? What would changing it to crank do besides it reading twice per rotation instead of once? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 What was the reason for installing the MS in the first place? Is it a Turbo Engine running higher boost? Or Normally aspirated engine with modifications that the stock ECU can't compensate properly for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) I do now yes, but I thought that the distributor rotates at cam speed? What would changing it to crank do besides it reading twice per rotation instead of once? Make it work as intended... depends how the software interprets that setting. Best to follow DIY's instructions. You know instuctions? Those things us Male species never read? LOL. Edit: The reason may be that the DIY wheel is actually a 24 plus 2 trigger wheel, But the software is written to recognise the Trigger wheel as a 12 plus 1. That's just an educated guess. I didn't write the software. Edited March 30, 2017 by Chickenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggedgoods Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 What was the reason for installing the MS in the first place? Is it a Turbo Engine running higher boost? Or Normally aspirated engine with modifications that the stock ECU can't compensate properly for? It's a 1985 VG30ET 300zx. I've put a bigger turbo, intercooler, external wastegate, electric fan, boost gauge, wideband. Probably more but not off the top of my head. I wanted to be able to tune the car to compensate for more boost and better ignition/fuel control. Hopefully run bigger injectors and also E85 in the near future. I wanted to get rid of my MAF and other stock shit like the egr and stuff that requires a new tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) Ok.. That explains and simplifies things. I was just having a look at your .Basic tune again. Your spark Table is a bit aggressive for a start up tuning file. IMHO, knock the total advance down from 38 to around 32 or 30. Even the NA engines don't use any where near 38 degrees total advance. And of course 32 degrees is just a starting point with ZERO boost. As you add boost you have to retard total timing accordingly. There should be some Basic Tunes that you can download from MS Forums for a stock 300ZX Turbo... that would be a good starting point. Of course bear in mind that someone else's tune is only as good a the guy tuning it. Always stay on the conservative side when tuning and work your way up. That means conservative ignition advance, low boost ( start out at 5 - 10 lbs and work upwards ) , and a safe rich AFR curve ( 10.5 to 11.0 is Rich Safe under Boost ). Just an FYI. A stock 2007 Subaru Forester with factory Turbo engine runs 10.5 to 1 AFR at WOT. This is often called " Idiot" mode... Manufacturers have to be very conservative. so they don't burn holes in pistons. That's why a good Hi Perf Tune can gain so much on Turbo engines. Less so on NA engines these days. Edited March 30, 2017 by Chickenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggedgoods Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Ok.. That explains and simplifies things. I was just having a look at your .Basic tune again. Your spark Table is a bit aggressive for a start up tuning file. IMHO, knock the total advance down from 38 to around 32 or 30. Even the NA engines don't use any where near 38 degrees total advance. And of course 32 degrees is just a starting point with ZERO boost. As you add boost you have to retard total timing accordingly. There should be some Basic Tunes that you can download from MS Forums for a stock 300ZX Turbo... that would be a good starting point. Of course bear in mind that someone else's tune is only as good a the guy tuning it. Always stay on the conservative side when tuning and work your way up. That means conservative ignition advance, low boost ( start out at 5 - 10 lbs and work upwards ) , and a safe rich AFR curve ( 10.5 to 11.0 is Rich Safe under Boost ). Just an FYI. A stock 2007 Subaru Forester with factory Turbo engine runs 10.5 to 1 AFR at WOT. This is often called " Idiot" mode... Manufacturers have to be very conservative. so they don't burn holes in pistons. That's why a good Hi Perf Tune can gain so much on Turbo engines. Less so on NA engines these days. Yeah, I know you've gotta be safe when you first start tuning. I haven't touched the tables much except for getting the car to hold at idle. I want to get my ignition timing all figured out before I start messing with the tables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namor Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Make it work as intended... depends how the software interprets that setting. Best to follow DIY's instructions. You know instuctions? Those things us Male species never read? LOL. Edit: The reason may be that the DIY wheel is actually a 24 plus 2 trigger wheel, But the software is written to recognise the Trigger wheel as a 12 plus 1. That's just an educated guess. I didn't write the software. That's exactly the reason. It basically uses the trigger wheel to get both a cam signal (the one long slot by itself) and a crank signal (the 24-1-1 slots) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggedgoods Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) That's exactly the reason. It basically uses the trigger wheel to get both a cam signal (the one long slot by itself) and a crank signal (the 24-1-1 slots)So you're saying I need both the 60* and 360* wires connected to MS? Where would i plug the 360* wire in at the Megasquirt? What would the long slot be used For? Just a position? Or perhaps the greater good lol. Now if I put the wheel speed to crank, I'd have to change the teeth to 24 and 2 missing right? Edited March 30, 2017 by baggedgoods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 So you're saying I need both the 60* and 360* wires connected to MS? Where would i plug the 360* wire in at the Megasquirt? What would the long slot be used For? Just a position? Or perhaps the greater good lol. Now if I put the wheel speed to crank, I'd have to change the teeth to 24 and 2 missing right? For Lord's sake man. Follow the instructions as clearly listed by Mega Squirt. Quit trying to out think the designers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggedgoods Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 For Lord's sake man. Follow the instructions as clearly listed by Mega Squirt. Quit trying to out think the designers. Relaaax. Not all of us can understand everything going on unless it's explained in Laymans terms. I've read the article about the optical trigger wheel and it doesn't say anything about the long tooth for the cam signal. No explanation as to why it's needed I should say. They say to input the teeth as 12-1 But if it's spinning at crank speed, it's going to read it twice? I'm just trying to understand HOW it works, as well as getting it to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggedgoods Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) I've got the ignition coil ground hooked up to pin 36. The positive to the coil is hooked up to 12v run and crank. Won't fire. It will only fire when I have pin 36 hooked up to the G/B wire on the power transistor. As for the CAS wiring, I have the G/Y and B/W still hooked into the stock wiring because it's the unused wire and a 12v lead. Scratching my head again. Edited March 31, 2017 by baggedgoods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namor Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 It's all been explained in layman's terms in this thread. The distributor spins at Camshaft speed (1/2 Crankshaft speed) the 24-1-1 slots are to simulate a 12-1 crank shaft trigger wheel. So it spins half a revolution and it sees 12-1. Spins the other half revolution and sees 12-1. Unless you are converting to electronic ignition and going away from the distributor or are going to fully sequential injection, you don't need the "cam signal" which comes from the lone long slot. All that slot does (when wired up) is tells the ECU which stroke the engine is on, compression or exhaust. Seriously, just follow the guide that diyautotune has for using their trigger wheel. As for not firing when hooked up directly to pin 36, you need an ignitor for your coil. Pin 36 is only a 5v logic level output. There should be a spot on your board to add this https://www.diyautotune.com/product/bosch-bip373-coil-driver-mod-kit/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namor Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Oh and directly from the product page for the trigger wheel "This one replaces the ring of four slits with a 24-1-1 wheel that behaves like a 12-1 crank trigger. Then we added an outside slot to provide a cam sync where the 360 degree slot ring works." https://www.diyautotune.com/product/54-mm-optical-trigger-wheel-for-nissan-l28et-or-vg30e/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggedgoods Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 Oh and directly from the product page for the trigger wheel "This one replaces the ring of four slits with a 24-1-1 wheel that behaves like a 12-1 crank trigger. Then we added an outside slot to provide a cam sync where the 360 degree slot ring works." https://www.diyautotune.com/product/54-mm-optical-trigger-wheel-for-nissan-l28et-or-vg30e/ Ok, thank you for clearing things up. Now, while using my stock ignitor, the car runs but really poorly. I'm still not able to control the timing besides rotating the distributor. What would the issue be if not my settings in MS? To get spark, pin 36 needs to be wired in to the signal wire on my stock ignitor(since I don't have the BIP373 ignitor) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Still curious about a couple of things. You never really explained what you meant by "piggybacked". Everyone is answering MS questions but what's the original ECU doing? Is it connected to anything? Does it even come on to play in this thread? Secondly - does "baggedgoods" refer to marijuana? It does, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggedgoods Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) Still curious about a couple of things. You never really explained what you meant by "piggybacked". Everyone is answering MS questions but what's the original ECU doing? Is it connected to anything? Does it even come on to play in this thread? Secondly - does "baggedgoods" refer to marijuana? It does, right? The original ECU is still in the car connected to some grounds and power for various sensors. I plan to go through all the wiring for it and try to get rid of it from the car. But everything the MS is controlling is not hooked up to my stock ECU, besides the 12v power and ground to the ignitor (I believe) I don't mean piggyback as in I'm using MS to control one thing and my stock ECU to control another thing. I just meant that my stock ECU is still hooked up in the car, but I don't believe its controlling anything. Like I said, I'll be working on getting rid of it this weekend because that may be an issue. And actually no, it honestly never occurred to me that it could be interpreted that way until now lol Edited March 31, 2017 by baggedgoods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) Ok, thank you for clearing things up. Now, while using my stock ignitor, the car runs but really poorly. I'm still not able to control the timing besides rotating the distributor. What would the issue be if not my settings in MS? To get spark, pin 36 needs to be wired in to the signal wire on my stock ignitor(since I don't have the BIP373 ignitor) Are you absolutely sure you don't have a BIP373 driver? They are internal and are built onto the MS Mother Board. Edited March 31, 2017 by Chickenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Open the MS case and see if slot Q16 has the BIP373. Transistor in there. If not buy it and follow the directions from DIY. Easiest way by far. If you don't know how to solder small electrical components properly. Find someone who does. It's literally a 5 minute job. Here's the link on how to Use MS 2 on 280ZX Turbo and Z31 Turbo Optical dizzy's: https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/install/nissan-datsun/megasquirt-your-280zx-turbo/ And here's the relevant instructions. This may already be done to your board. Using the MS-II PCBv3 or V3.57 ECU Build the ECU up to trigger from the Hall/Optical Input (all of my MS230-C units are by default configured this way). For a V3.0, connect TachSelect to OptoIn, TSEL to OptoOut. For a V3.57 board, put JP1 in the 2-3 position and J1 in the 1-2 position The only change is to enable the IGBT High Current Ignition Coil Driver Circuit to directly drive the coil. Remove the jumper from JS10 to IGN or the center hole of Q16 (if exists) Jumper IGBTIN to JS10 Jumper IGBTOUT to IGN (V3.0 only) If you do not have a BIP373 transistor in the Q16 slot, install it. That’s it! Note – if using MS2/Extra, you can also build the board as shown in the MS1 example. You will need to change the spark output pin from JS10 to D14. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.