Anyone have a 2JZGE megasquirt tune they would be willing to share?

[rodgerhome]

I am running the latest 2JZ Supra SC300 9298 MS3Pro PnP Plug and Play from Megasquirt.  I have installed it in a 92 manual SC300 that I use for endurance racing.  The engine is stock, but is a fresh JDM engine with good compression.  I installed the MS and had trouble getting the settings right to get it to run, but finally figured out a few issues.  It is supposed to come with a tune that will start the car, but most of the settings were for a turbo 2j so I was able to learn some basics of the ecu software by getting those corrected.  When I got the car running, I took to a tuner that hasn't had a lot of experience with the MS Tuner software (friend of a friend, no cost), but he was able to get a timing triggering issue resolved and got the acis to trigger properly.  Afterward on subsequent pulls, the best timing and fuel maps he could dial in are in the latest tune, but there is something just not right.  The top end power is below what it should be, at least 15 hp maybe as much as 25 missing.  I can post the latest tune, log file, and even the dyno pull if someone would be willing to take a look at it.  I did not get a baseline with the Toyota ecu, wish I would have, but I took the car to the track and ran it on the MS, came in, installed the Toyota ecu, and ran it again and it is what you would expect from a power standpoint on the Toyota, lacking on the MS.  It has a feel like a slight hesitation, but not a dead miss, especially at the upper end but at the extreme upper end it's like you can feel it come in.  I realize the butt dyno is subjective, but it's noticeable enough that it is real so no doubt the power is down on the MS.  There doesn't seem to be a sync loss in the log file, but we did see some sync loss at idle but nothing in the pulls.  I keep thinking it has something to do with that, especially given that is a known issue on earlier MS when using the distributor for timing sensing.  One oddity when comparing the two ecu's, the Toyota seems to be dumping fuel, afr's in the low 10's and even 10 flat at wot but on the MS we see more reasonable high 11's low 12's.  I am aware we can optimize that, just trying to start somewhere safe.  This is a "new" engine but the previous engine did the same thing from an afr standpoint on the Toyota, so it's not a specific injector issue, etc.  The engine is strong on the Toyota ecu.  

 

I hope someone will be willing to either share a similar tune I can dig through and maybe figure out something that is missing or wrong in settings, timing, fuel, etc.  Or be willing to look through mine and see if they see anything obvious.  Any help provided would be much appreciated.  Right now I am leaving the Toyota ecu in for the next race (weekend after next) unless I can figure something out.  I am admittedly a noob on this stuff, but I have had fun learning and look forward to learning more. 

Track Tune Starting MAP.msq

Track Session Data Log 1.msl

[seattlejester]

Welcome to the forums. 

 

Given your lack of history some background posts basic information might be useful, like all the components in regards to the engine, such as 02 sensor, etc.

 

I'd be curious to see the dyno chart, are you basing the missing power off of feel or numbers online? A stock 2jzge really doesn't put out much power and the feel is quite muted in the heavier chassis.

 

I would offer some help, but my setup is turbo and low compression so most likely not that applicable. I'll take a look when I get home though. The dyno chart may be nice to see.

 

Hesitation is most likely related to acceleration enrichment settings so those can be taken a look at as well.

 

While there are a few of us running megasquirt, you may find more assistance at the megasquirt forums. If not we do pretty much have a resident tuner who you may be able to help you get a little bit more squared away @Chickenman

[rodgerhome]

Thanks for the reply.  I thought I put the basics in my original post, but yes I am using a wideband for input to the ecu rather than the stock O2 sensors.  What else?  As far as whether it is just feel, yes it is feel but we have 1000's of laps in the car and the lap times were off just as you would expect from the feel of the car.  So, despite not getting a base run with the stock ecu, it is off considerably no doubt, the only question would be exactly how much.  Plus my buddy on infinity pulled 25 more hp with similar engine just as a reference point.  With the stock ecu, the car is at typical feel and typical lap times.  I did reach out on the MS forums, I am in such a unique position I just don't think there are many out there that can help apparently.  I did get a tune from MS of a similar 2JZGE and that helped tremendously.  Running the Compare Tunes feature on Tuner Studio was very helpful, so it may tell me what I need because there were several differences.  Dwell was different, injector settings was different, timing map was a little more aggressive, among other stuff.  Once again, thanks for the input.

 

[seattlejester]

All the data points would be useful. 

 

Wideband make? Innovate is popular, but when they start to fail they can read off by as much as 1-2 points which would mess drastically with your tune. AEM seems less likely to fail in this manner. It is confounding as most dyno places run their own AFR sensor to eliminate this situation.

 

Stock injectors? Does the JDM market use a different size? From what I see online the values kind of jump around as what is quoted, I'd have to look at the FSM to see if they list it, but if you are running a map based off of the USDM size and have the JDM injectors (for the 2jzgte, the JDM one is 440cc, the USDM is 550cc if memory serves), you would have problems. Make sure they are similar between markets before you adjust all your injector settings.

 

If the tuner adjusted the timing map, did he find the timing offset on the crank? I had a strange case where I think the distributor was just at the limit of the adjustment so when you asked the ECU to adjust with RPM it would fall off the spark window and fail to fire the spark, made the car drive really poorly with heavy hesitation above low RPM.

 

That kind of information can be useful for those reasons and others.

 

The numbers actually seem pretty normal. I've seen less, although I'm only familiar with USDM motors for the most part. If it has 0 correction factor on a dynojet, that seems like really good numbers, 15-25 more would be really on the high end I have seen for NA, I want to say I saw a ITB ge motor make like 220 to the wheels with cams and all sorts of other goodies. 

[rodgerhome]

1 hour ago, seattlejester said:

All the data points would be useful. 

 

Wideband make? Innovate is popular, but when they start to fail they can read off by as much as 1-2 points which would mess drastically with your tune. AEM seems less likely to fail in this manner. It is confounding as most dyno places run their own AFR sensor to eliminate this situation.

 

Stock injectors? Does the JDM market use a different size? From what I see online the values kind of jump around as what is quoted, I'd have to look at the FSM to see if they list it, but if you are running a map based off of the USDM size and have the JDM injectors (for the 2jzgte, the JDM one is 440cc, the USDM is 550cc if memory serves), you would have problems. Make sure they are similar between markets before you adjust all your injector settings.

 

If the tuner adjusted the timing map, did he find the timing offset on the crank? I had a strange case where I think the distributor was just at the limit of the adjustment so when you asked the ECU to adjust with RPM it would fall off the spark window and fail to fire the spark, made the car drive really poorly with heavy hesitation above low RPM.

 

That kind of information can be useful for those reasons and others.

 

The numbers actually seem pretty normal. I've seen less, although I'm only familiar with USDM motors for the most part. If it has 0 correction factor on a dynojet, that seems like really good numbers, 15-25 more would be really on the high end I have seen for NA, I want to say I saw a ITB ge motor make like 220 to the wheels with cams and all sorts of other goodies. 

 

Once again, thanks for the reply.  Wideband is made by the same people that make the rest of the gauges in the car which is why I chose it, it is GlowShift.  But it uses the same Bosch sensor as a lot of the other makes.  The tuner does use his own sensor, matched up pretty close to what my wideband was showing.  However, I may invest in a better unit before I try the MS in the car again.  

 

It is stock injectors, I think we had to swap the injector rail and injectors from the motor we took out for some reason, sorry just don't remember why we had to do that or if we actually did.  I have looked through the years to find size of the GE injectors, my research always said 315cc but the tune I was sent has 250cc.  I think I'll try their size setting. 

 

I'll have to ask him about the timing offset, there is a different setting in my tune than the donor tune, need to research that a bit. 

 

I hate to focus too much on the numbers, the point is the power is off with the MS and better on the stock ecu.  It's significant, not just a couple but double digits.  I can't make the point enough, we are very familiar with what the car feels like, what typical lap times should be, corner entry and exit speeds, etc.  There is no doubt the power is off comparatively.

 

When I get done with these two races over the rest of the month, I'll get back on this.  I just haven't been able to commit any time toward it the last couple of weeks.

 

These are the differences I noted between the tunes.  You'll have to remember this was a plug and play unit that is sold as having a base tune you can get the car running on to get it to a tuner.  I didn't change many of these simply for that reason, but now that I have some more info I will probably change a few things.

 

 

	My Tune	Similar tune from DIY
Basic/Load Settings
Engine & Sequential Settings
Required Fuel	10.6	6.1
Squirts per engine cycle	2	1
Injector staging	Alternating	Simultaneous
Injector size	315	250
Injector trim	Off	On
General Settings
Barometric Correction	Two independent sensors	Initial MAP reading
Realtime Baro Port	Analog In 3	MAP
AFR table Load	Use primary load (Algorithm)	MAP
Rev Limiter
Rev Limiter CLT Based	CLT Based	Normal
Spark retard mode	Off	Fixed Angle
Retard to (deg)	-	8.0
Enable Fuel Cut Limiting	On	Off
Engine State Settings
Wide-open throttle threshold (%)	95	99.9
Fuel Settings
Fuel VE table 1	Values are 32 to 85	Values are 90 to 160
Ignition Settings
Ignition Options/Wheel decoder
Ignition input capture	Rising Edge	Falling Edge
Tooth #1 angle (deg. BTDC)	4	2
Main wheel speed	Crank wheel	Cam wheel
Nominal dwell (ms)	2	3.5
Spark duration (ms)	1	2
Ignition table 1 (spark advance)	see table, some differences
Accel Enrich
Accel-Pump Accel Enrichment
Accel TPS dot threshold (%/sec)	15	999
Cold Accel multiplier (%)	140	100
Full Accel Below: (rpm)	2000	6000
Zero Accel Above (rpm)	6000	7000
3D Tuning Maps
Ignition table 1 (spark advance)	Looks significantly different

[seattlejester]

Not sure on the numbers side, but it may be a matter of the dyno calibration, the numbers will differ so maybe not a good metric for me to fixate on.

 

I think it is the bosch sensor that is the failure point in the innovate kit, the gauge really does not matter much as it just converts the value from the sensor, but if the dyno one was reading correctly maybe not as much of a concern.

 

There is quite a bit of difference, the other tune has some strange values, and the ignition table almost seems like it is set for VVTI. 

 

I'll try real hard to remember to look at the files and compare when I get home.

[seattlejester]

Hmm I looked over my settings

 

I have 2 strokes per cycle

Simultaneous injection

 

On Chickenman's recommendation I am running much less required fuel and gaining resolution on the fuel map so mine is 3.8 with 440cc injectors values go from 37-217

 

Your ignition and fuel maps have values on the y axis that are quite high, you won't exceed much above 100 fuel load without boost so you could gain some resolution there.

 

Your ignition table looks almost inverted from mine, but that may just be a setting

 

 

I realize I can't help you on the ignition or injector parameters as I am running 440cc supra injectors and COP with a HE sensor.

[Chickenman]

Req- Fuel is just a number in an equation.  Often you need to lower this number to gain more resolution at the Low end as Seattle-Jester mentioned. 

 

The MS Low-Z drivers can be flaky. For that reason I always recommend using Hi-Z injectors or Low-Z with resistors. 

 

The DIYAutoTune PNP Tunes are really rough from my experience. 

 

I'm taking a break from Tuning through December. Juts tying up a couple of loose tunes. But I can certainly do something in the New Year. PM me for contact info. 

[rodgerhome]

Bump.  Have not made any progress on this so far, ran into some other unrelated issues and just now getting back on the MS tuning.  Anybody have any other thoughts going forward?  If not, I'll get back on it and come back here to post what I find out going forward.  Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to respond.

[seattlejester]

If AFR's are good for the most part, then it would fall onto the timing short of another mechanical malady. 

 

You have to confirm your trigger settings. I believe it is cam driven distributor in stock form. My motor is from an SC300 non vvti and I don't recall a crank sensor, where are you taking your crank signal from? 

 

This isn't a stock ECU so you need to confirm the spark trigger offset that it is reading and firing at. Without doing this your timing table will be shifted by the offset amount.

 

Your accel enrichment dot threshold is pretty darn low. Might be causing false accel enrichment events.

 

Your accel enrichment threshold under 2000 is a bit odd, basically no enrichment above 2000rpm, so off of idle you don't have any enrichment, unless you have it built into your fuel map.