John Scott Posted June 4, 2000 Share Posted June 4, 2000 Any one else been feeling prehistoric with their carbureted engine? Even plain old FI seems mundane. I know they do the job, and can run really well, but after spending a few hours reading about the turbo technology out there, visiting the turbo websites, all I can say is its humbling. Knowing ther are only two american made turbo engines worth mentioning, that really can put out the power, (Syclone, Grand National) I honestly think for a street driven car, the project with the most hp potential is/will be Scottie's GNZ. I've read the engine "recipes" for 6-700 hp turbo'd 4.3s (700 they claim is the limit on a stock block and crank) and the @#$% Buick can make even MORE! These are ultra high boost, 27+ psi, engines that can still be driven around like mom's car when they're not rolling up the pavement. You can't put that kind of HP in a naturally aspirated V8 w/o big cams, high comp, etc. Listen to the 700 hp GN idling at the staging lights next to the 10 sec V8 it's about to beat, and you'll see my point. The biggest shortcoming of the 4.3 is its computer system whereas the buick upgrades seem to have no limitations. If anyone can apply this to a V8 you'd be pushing F1 like #s, and still be able to drive cross country. The new ceramic bearing fast spool up turbos make turbo lag a thing of the past. HP is a twist of the waste gate knob. If I had the $$, knowledge, there would be no question. I'd have the baddest turbo'd 1000 hp car on the planet. JS [This message has been edited by John Scott (edited June 04, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fast Frog Posted June 4, 2000 Share Posted June 4, 2000 Not really John: Before my 383, I had four diff turbos in my Z in over 18 yrs. I was the 1st one to turbocharge a Zcar in Colo back in 1977. The last one was with a 7.4 cr 82ZX turbo engine. I ran a Mini Grand Natl setup (super "H" 57mm turbo), a Cartech intercooler, Turbonectics Deltagate II wastegate, varible boost control, Spearco water-alcohol injection, Accel DFI engine mgmt sys, and a 3" exhaust. It ran great once the turbo spooled up, but had to use aviation gas to run 15 lbs of boost. To run 17-18 lbs, I purchased tetra ethyl lead @ $25 a gallon from an outfit out of Ohio to bring the octane to 104 to 106. I ran 20 lbs once with 110 octane racing gas ($5 a gallon). And 22 lbs with this gas on a 0 degree cold Jan evening. At 20 lbs or more, I was having head gasket problems and oil heating problems. I used to subscribe to Turbo & High Tech mag where they always feature 9 second Hondas and 9 second Supras, but most of those machines are running 25+ lbs of boost on super hi octane only purchaseble (most of the time) at a track. They could never run those things on the street with pump premium. Also, their hi tech engine installations are in the $50-$75K range-a lot $$$$ to prove how bad your wheels are!! Don't get me wrong!! I liked my turbo setups!! I blew away a lot of mustangs and Camaros. But I like my 383 better!! It's got a broader hi torque power range, it isn't as hi strung, and I can run it on pump premium!! Bottom line is I'm for anybody's mechanical and artistic expression when it comes to Zcar enthusiasm and hybrid art!! I just really don't miss all that turbo "hassel", and prefer a good V8 setup. Cheers!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted June 4, 2000 Share Posted June 4, 2000 John, I agree with you but I dont plan on making the investment for a 700hp GN. Instead my goal is mid-10s with a bigger turbo and basic bolt-ons. Of course that is what I say now, hehe. At the moment the car is not ready for hard blasts off the line because I still do not have a way to strap down the engine. However, I was itching to know what it would do and ran it this weekend. To baseline everyone, the car weighs 2,750lbs with me in it and the engine and turbo is stock but with slightly larger injectors, 3" DP and mandrel exhaust, front mount NPR I/C and a 62mm TB, up from 57mm, 3.90 welded R200 and 245 street tires. Again, your basic bolt-ons. Saturday night I ran at the 1/8-mile track with a 93 octane street chip and 17psi boost. On the 1st pass I tried to brake rev and the car crept and tripped the lights resulting in a 4.4 60' and 10.38 ET but 95mph!! 2nd run I just held the brake, eased off the line and waited for the boost resulting in a 2.17 60' and 8.18 @ 91.1mph. I cut a 1.74 60' with the L28/5-spd and if I could have matched that, the 1/8-mile ETs would have been about 7.72. Woulda, coulda. Sunday I ran the 1/4-mile and it was 95 in the blazing sun compared to 80 the night before. I installed the 108-octane race chip and had high hopes of seeing at least a .5 improvement. Instead, the car ran 102mph in the 1/4-mile, missing badly on the top-end. I put the street chip back and ran 12.41 @ 114.7 with a 2.19 60' and 1/8-mile of 8.18 @ 91.9mph. Despite the heat, the car was consistent with the night before and picked up 23mph in the 2nd half. Looks like I might have a bad race chip. My 60' was about .5 slower than with the Nissan engine and when I get the engine strapped down and start using the transbrake and launching with about 8+psi, it should get interesting. I feel the car could have run 11.9s if I was able to launch it hard and with a good race chip, 23psi boost and sticky tires, it should really haul and make the mid-10s goal look attainable. I feel good about the car's potential considering that was the 1st time on the strip with the GN engine and absolutely no power tuning done. I have heard of guys squeezing 400hp with the stock turbo and not even removing the valve covers. John, BTW, I love pulling up to the line and have people wonderif my car is running. Frog, sounds like you had a bad turbo experience. With the Nissan L28T I ran 17psi boost with the stock t3 turbo and 110-octane and ran 111mph with no detonation. Scottie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted June 5, 2000 Author Share Posted June 5, 2000 Scottie, Glad to see your out thrashing it. First round runs are pretty misleading. One of our local street "heros" ran a 14 sec. with his supercharged Vette on his first outing. Everyone smurked. He has the same set up, but dialed in now. Runs low 11s high 10s all day. Drives it to work year 'round. BTW I hear some of those Sy/Ty guys getting 14psi or so off the line. Awesome 60' times! JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Dreamer Posted June 5, 2000 Share Posted June 5, 2000 I must admit after surfing some of the GN and Syclone sites I'm impressed! Turbo's have come along way! I like the idea of having a V8 killer and Boost seems to be the answer. Scottie, will a T-56 mate to a Buick 3.8? Does your GNZ use SFI? How hard was it to setup? John Scott, how goes the T-56 install? I'm currently trying to get my 72' weatherproof, anyone know where I can get a set weatherstriping for my doors and hatch? Motorsports seems way expensive. Keep up the good work! ------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted June 5, 2000 Author Share Posted June 5, 2000 Good points Fast frog, and probably a matter of pref. how you like your power served. You will have a broader torque spread. We have a local 383 vortech pulling some impressive times. (Low 11s 3300 lb car Bandemier). My point is that I'm seeing 10s, and 9s out of 262 ci and smaller pulling 3500 lb cars. What would this equate to in a 2500 lb chassis?. These are engines that can be driven home after race day. Yes you would have to set the boost back down and street wars are limited to your octane levels. Yes their crutch is octane. If this were applied to a V8 it would be phenomenal. Turbo boost is more evenly distributed throughout the rpm range than our linear supercharged boost. I can't hit 8/10/14 psi off the line. Its more like 2 or 3. BTW 16 psi is attainible w/o octane boosters and intercoolers. Its dependent on the adiabatic effeciency of the system. I've run 14psi for years and recently decided 16 is safe for my system. I think the 18 was pushing it a bit. Now I just shift a little sooner. High boost readings don't necessarily mean the engine is seeing more fuel/air. Sometimes its just stacking up in the manifold or the mixture expanding from all the induced heat. I think turbo tech has come a long ways and we'll be seeing more record setting engines using this combo. I've never seen a blower wind up a 1.5 litre to 1000hp. I love my Procharger. I think more HP can be made with turbos. JS [This message has been edited by John Scott (edited June 04, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted June 5, 2000 Share Posted June 5, 2000 Z-D, there are no kits for the GN swap so you will have to make your own pads for the motor mounts. Once you get the mounts done, then you can use the JTR trans mount, and have a driveshaft made. As for the T56, I can make some inquiries. I know you can fit a manual, just dont know which ones. To be honest, I had 2nd thoughts going into the swap about using the slushbox, but after driving the car for a couple of months and running it at the track, there is no looking back. The auto trans was a dream running down the strip and I cannot wait to start using the transbrake and launching with lots of boost. Having done a Scarab, JTR and now the GN, the GN is no more difficult except for making the mounts. The front of engine is about in the same location because you need room at the rear to route the downpipe. Unfortunately my mount pads were custom made and welded onto the crossmember, else I would make a copy of them. I dont want to get into a V-8 vs V-6 debate, but IMO I think the V-6 has more HP potential and better driveability when you get up in the 600+hp range. However, I would never turn my back on an LS-1/6-spd Scottie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted June 5, 2000 Author Share Posted June 5, 2000 . With an intercooler you could have a very drivable 800+ hp smallblock. ATI pushes that idea around. No, this isn't about the # of cylinders, but the application of power. From what I've researched, of the street projects currently posted, the GN has the hp potential. Ffrog: More intercooled boost? YIKES! ZD: just waiting on a couple of more parts, lightweight flywheel, clutch etc. JS [This message has been edited by John Scott (edited June 05, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Bayley Posted June 5, 2000 Share Posted June 5, 2000 Anyone visited the DSM Homepage www.dsm.org lately? (Talon, Eclipse, Laser) There is a whole bunch of ten second “legitimate†street cars out there. Heck I got my butt kicked last year by a 92 Talon that; pulled into the pits, removed tools and spare tire, dropped tires to 15psi, uncorked exhaust, blasted off an 11.0 at 120mph. I was humbled… to say the least. Turbo’s are cool. -Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 6, 2000 Share Posted June 6, 2000 Check out Mike Sitar's page at: http://geocities.com/toohighpsi/ Lots of very cool cars he's built/building. The budget twin turbo 351 was the first one I read about, though, somethings he did made me cringe. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarp Posted June 6, 2000 Share Posted June 6, 2000 Ok you guys have really got me thinking about my new project z. Twin turbo smallblock chevy? my mind is running wild! 4" bore 3" stroke 302 high reving or 383 hmmmm I think I like the 302 idea. I will be researching this much more fresh ideas Keep it up guys Stan [This message has been edited by scarp (edited June 06, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody 82 ZXT Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 Right back atcha, buddy. (I needed to test my new tagline.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 Being a great turbo fan myself, I must admit to one thing. Once you've gone turbo, it's very hard to go back. Owning a DSM I can attest to the power potential of having a turbocharged 4 cyl. Now that I own a NA I6, all I can think of doing is dropping in a turbo engine (be it a built L28ET, or a Supra engine). There are so many noises that I miss a turbo car...the PPPPFFFFSSTTT!! of the BOV, the jetlike roar of a large turbo, the rush of air past the intake...hopefully soon I'll have my Z fitted with a turbo motor and can yet again experience the exhileration of boosting 20+psi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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