Guest Anonymous Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 I know it's a drag to not be able to just bolt on a set of pre-made headers. You can make your own it's difficult but mostly time consuming. My son and I had never done it, but we had the motor already in the car with the wiring and transmission lines run, the radiator hooked up, throtle cable done. We tried almost every header company out there and finally settled on Hedman, because they were close (50 miles) and seemed like they were truely interested in helping me with my problem. I took them an exhaust manifold gasket an they made a pattern for cutting me an exhaust flange and then they welded stubs 1 7/8" x 1 1/2". We took them and bolted the flanges on and tacked a tube here and a tube there, un-bolt the flange, put it back on, in and out in and out etc.................. untill the headers were complete. Pulled them out finished welding and grinding checked for leaks welded some more etc..... Took them to Millers Custom Powdercoating and had them alumi-coated. It was the most time consuming and patience draining thing I've ever done, but it is do-able. I checked with a few places about having it done,anywhere from $800.00 to $1200.00 plus materials with no powdercoating. I had to do it couldn't afford to pay some one else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 I have spoke with Laren at S and S headers and he is the engineer that designed the Z car swap headers and he said that they fit angle plug and straight plug heads and the long tube headers are 13/4 diameter tubes, perfect fot a high perf app! Give S and S a call and talk to Laren 1 888 758 0355. He probably has the answers you are looking for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 Jim, hang onto the measurements Rewarder gives you and I"ll find mine for comparison I've mentioned them before, found 6 matches under the search fxn. They seemed v. willing to do a few custom tweaks at no extra cost for me and I just haven't gotten to redrawing my geomtry neatly to send off to them yet. ~$310 for coated fine quality 1-3/4 tubes seemed to be the deal. My decision left was 2.5 or 3" collectors as my header to frame rail clearance might work with 3's but hard to know till it's all in their and built right. They will also send them to you uncoated for test fit and alterations if you like and then return to them to coat once you KNOW they're good to go....not perfectly handy but a good option to have IMO. I believe 'Jim' was the guy I talked to their a few times? good luck if you try them before I get to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 11, 2001 Author Share Posted September 11, 2001 Couple of things.... I know I could get custom headers done. I've even got a friend who builds race cars from piles of tubing who does this for others and who installed my cagefuel cell. However it would be time consuming for him and while I'd get a good price it wouldn't be fair to him IMO. It would take his time away from other projects and might take a good bit of time away from me driving the beast I'm not looking for long tube headers here, I don't want the install hassle nor am I looking to eek the last HP out of this thing. I know about SandS - they've got a good rep and has been mentioned here a bunch. Several folks have their long tubes and they apparently fit well - this is great that they make a header for that works. However I don't want long tubes, not this time. If I wanted long tubes I'd have bought theirs right off the bat - no question! Heck, if I'd known shoprties were going to give htis grief I might have installed theirs with the engine. Their cost is certainly "right" IMO. Rewarder - the reason I didn't go with them in the first place - and they'd been mentioned I know - was that they didn't list measurements on their page. When I looked at the Sanderson page they DID have measurements and when I took a ruler to it they looked like a good fit! The header's flange bit me in the rear though. I also wasn't sure that Rewarder sold their headers at the listed prices WITH coating. Sure, that's the way they're pictured but their prices are pretty cheap for coated headers. So given a choice between what looked like a good fit up and away from the issues I was having with my plugs and a somewhat unknown I chose Sanderson. I know Rewarder had been mentioned but I thought that Ross was going long tube and didn't think anyone had tried their shorties yet either. I expected that I'd encounter folks at Sanderson much like what it sounds like Ross found at Rewarder. I guess that maybe we've all gained a little knowledge from this? I'm going to wait and not do ANYTHING until I get measurements from Rewarder. IF they sound close I'll call them up, chat, and then consider returning the Sandersons without having mods done. At that point I'll really get a feel for Sanderson - they were VERY good about shipping me their headers and we'll see how gracious they are about returns. I already face a 15% restocking fee plus $35 in shipping plus money sending them back. Not a cheap lesson! At that point I'll have a real feel for their attitudes and service (sigh) until then I'll withold my final judgement. I guess I just don't think another $200 on top of $400+ is terribly reasonable... Heh, at least no one else will make this same mistake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 11, 2001 Author Share Posted September 11, 2001 As some of you know - the Sanderson CC134s didn't work out on my JTR swap. The flange smacks right into the steering shaft AND the aluminum block on the driver's side. These are seriously nice headers but the darned things are too short! I measured for them and it all looked good - drat! So, I called them up today hoping I'd find an enthusiast on staff who could help me out and might be eager to add an application to their catalog. Hot rod exhaust must mean hot rodders on staff right? Well, I got a woman who put me on hold as soon as I began explaining things, another woman who seemed more on the ball, and finally a guy who said that if I enclosed a check for $200 along with the headers that he could fix me up. For some reason I'm not feeling very warm and fuzzy here. They've got a 15% restock fee ($435 headers) and I'll lose my $35 shipping (2day) if I simply return them. I'm wondering if that might be best - has anyone else had much in the way of dealings with them? They seemed thrown off by the idea that I had an app that wasn't "standard" - shouldn't that be the norm with a header company? Wonder what will happen when they realize these are COATED headers too. Charge me even more? They seemed great when I called for the initial order and VERY helpful... Meanwhile I see that Rewarder has a set of 1 3/4 headers that APPEAR to be coated for less mony that MIGHT be long enough. I've now E-mailed them asking for measurements and hope that the silly things drop down more than 8 inches - 10 or 11 would be best. Seems silly to offer headers and NOT offer measurements for "universal" apps like this -duh!(sigh) I've also asked S&S for a catalog. From what I see online they've got plenty of headers but little in the way of pics or measurements. Argh! I know we've beat this subject to death but kripes you'd think that it would be easier to find a header that fits with all of us looking. Heck, I'd be happy with the Flowtechs now except that my head has a 1/4 inch step all around the port where the pipe is too small! Guess it kind of bugs me that I'm going to wind up doing the R&D for these guys AND pay for that privilage. $600+ for headers not counting exhaust shop bills just seems a bit crazy to me - yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 11, 2001 Author Share Posted September 11, 2001 Okay, I got a message back from Rewarder "The headers are 5" wide and 9" long" this is for the BH1020 headers. I believe I will remove one of my FlowTech's on Sunday and measure it - time allowing. If it looks close I'll talk to the Rewarder folks about theirs on the phone since E-mail doesn't seem to be a real good way to get details from them Ross, what were your measurements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 25, 2001 Author Share Posted September 25, 2001 Hrm, okay I stuck a tape measure down there and I THINK 9inch headers might work out - the Sandersons were pretty close. Worse comes to worse I'll be packing another set up to send back, at least it sounds like Rewarder will work with us. I've ordered the BH1020 set and should have it this week. 2.5inch collector works for me with 2.5inch downpipes and less worry of hitting steering etc. I'll let everyone know how they work out. Sanderson headers going back today. Fun Fun Wish me luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanadam Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 I have been reading the header issue and dont understand. I went with Hookers Block Hugger #2001 ceramic coated and 2 1/2 collector $264 from Summit. With JTR set up. These headers also work with the D port heads. I also have angled plugs and still no problem. But I did have to cut a bit on the motor mount to pass by the steering shaft. Just a little input Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z ya Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 Whats heads are you running? And why wont the flowtechs work?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 25, 2001 Author Share Posted September 25, 2001 I am running Edelbrock RPM heads. The ports on the heads are noticably bigger than the header primaries on the Flowtechs. Otherwise the Flowtechs are a terrific header. However mine were also defective and I had to have a weld done on them where the factory failed to finish welding them The Sanderson 1 3/4 primaries matched the ports perfectly but the flange hit all sorts of stuff on the driver's side. Here's a picture of the "step" from my port to the 1 5/8ths header. The gasket pictured matches my port perfectly! Mighty big lip, no? I'd imagine it's killing a bit of power. I've now gotten my plug wires to behave though and have not burned any more of them. IF these new headers fit my Flowtechs will be up for sale - they're coated too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 quote: Originally posted by BLKMGK: Ross, what were your measurements? Sorry I missed this when you posted it Jim. I'll have to dig those up, but I'll be sending them diagrams of my steering shaft and rail locations relative to my engine block/oil pan interface and exhaust port locations both laterally and vertically so if they don't fit it's either my fault for poor measurement or theirs for poor fabrication. Yet to find out if my geometry will require major tweaks (ie. more $) or not. Are you buying them coated already? Or shipped uncoated for fitment/possible tweaks and then returned for coating in final configuration? PS that 1404 gasket you pictured sure looks familiar(felpro race)...if I added up how many of those I've changed I'd have likely paid for new headers! [ September 25, 2001: Message edited by: Ross C ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 26, 2001 Author Share Posted September 26, 2001 I'm buying them out of the box coated. I did some measuring and they look like they MIGHT fit. Given a choice I don't want to be sending them back and forth over and over (sigh). Since the Hooker and the Flowtech's fit I don't think our application is all that weird. We'll see when they show up, I really don't want to keep going round and round on this. Heh, thanks for the gasket number - I wondered which it was I've not yet blown one thankfully. Big ports huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted September 26, 2001 Share Posted September 26, 2001 quote: Originally posted by BLKMGK: Big ports huh? Hmm, I'd always thought of my 'tiny headers', I think I prefer the big ports outlook -enjoying a half full glass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted September 26, 2001 Share Posted September 26, 2001 testing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dankinzle Posted September 26, 2001 Share Posted September 26, 2001 Hey you may wanna check out the sanderson qp1000. they are 1 3/4 step cast headers. I have a pic of the steering clearance on my site under engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted September 26, 2001 Share Posted September 26, 2001 BLKMGK, ouch! your pain, our gain. Never thought the header issue was going to be this tough. Not sure if you mentioned, but is your port mismatch as bad with the Hookers? JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 26, 2001 Author Share Posted September 26, 2001 Dan, I'll check them out. However weight was a concern of mine. Those headers are fairly heavy - the ones I just sent back, including the box, were just under 15lbs. The cast headers are closer to 20lb+apiece I think. Ouch! As for the Hookers - dunno'. I would ASSume that since they're also 1 5/8ths that I'd have a mismatch that was just as bad. Honestly the only reason why this is an issue is because the heads I've got have such big ports. Heck, they may have even been opened up some by the shop that built the motor (shrug). The Flowtechs ought to work fine for smaller ports and they're actually working fine for me now but the mismatch bugs me. Watching dyno pulls on somewhat regular basis now I'm starting to see where evensmall changes can make for BIG gains so I'd like to be as optimized as possible. Maybe I can get some pulls before and after? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted September 26, 2001 Share Posted September 26, 2001 Per David Vizard, mismatch at the bottom of the exhaust port can actually be a good thing - anti-reversion, that is. The top of the port (and the sides at the top) should match well, but having the port step downward to the header at the bottom of the port is actually a good thing for low speed torque, and doesn't hurt high speed power. However, that mismatch at the side of the port and header tube shown in the picture doesn't look good. If you haven't read Vizards book on modifying SBC heads, I highly recommend it. There's alot more in that book than just info on how to hog out material in the ports. The entire breathing of the engine is discussed. Great book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fast Frog Posted September 27, 2001 Share Posted September 27, 2001 HHmmmm! Thanks for the info BLKMGK and others. I've been contemplating using Sanderson's CC134 with my engine upgrade but haven't ordered them yet. I was wondering if they might be too short. I'll be looking forward to any revelations if someone finds a 1 3/4" header that fits!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 28, 2001 Author Share Posted September 28, 2001 Yeay, I can post again! Yeah, the Sandersons were a no-go and they didn't seem like they wanted to help much. The Rewarder set should be here, in fact it should've been here yesterday Ordered Monday and had it shipped 3-day so.. If it's not here today I'll be calling to bitch. Have several things to do before Saturday evening including driveshaft bolts and ignition so I may not have an answer before Sunday. If the primaries are sized on the flange like the Sandersons I'll be very happy. They had some good looking tubes but geez they were too short I'll post as soon as I know something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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