Oil pressure question

[Drax240z]

I was turning my enging over yesterday, trying to get some oil movement... I have an autometer mechanical oil pressure gauge installed. Anyway, I couldn't seem to get any oil pressure, and nothing even into the gauge line while turning the engine over. I did it for a while, off and on, and had reallly hoped to see some sort of oil pressure just from cranking over? (coil lead disconnected)

 

Does the engine not spin fast enough from just the starter to create oil pressure? Or have I got other issues? Engine has never ran, I'm in the process of doing a pre-start checklist... Thanks guys.

[Tim240z]

Best bet is to prime the oil pump. If you didn't fill the pump before installing it, it may take some time to get pressure going. Buy a primer that goes in place of the distributor (summit and others sell them)and spins with a drill, or what i did was just gut an old distributor and use my drill to prime the pump.

Tim

[Tim240z]

Problem with just cranking without pressure is everything is dry while rotating...never an ideal situation. Just run down to the local parts store and pick one up.

Tim

[Owen]

I think you should prime for about 30 seconds too? Look on the internet for engine break-in procedures, the good ones will recommend priming viz the method Tim mentioned.

 

Owen

[Dan Juday]

I want to chime in and agree with Tim. A drill motor will spin the pump much faster than the starter will. I doubt you will see enough pressure to register on your gauge by just cranking. When I changed my pump I primed it by hand in a bucket and was surprized by how long it took. Once the pump was primed it pumped great, but I would never start a new motor unless I was absolutely sure the pump was doing its job. Even if I had to wait a few weeks. I've seen what loss of oil will do to an engine.

[BLKMGK]

Cranking WILL eventually see pressure on the gauge bu tit DOES take a long while and as was stated - the motor is dry during that entire time. Supposedly packing the oil pump full of Vaselne will make it prime quicker that first time and prevent galling but I've never known anyone who's done that. Grumpy - you ever tried any of those tricks?

[Tim240z]

BLK,

I used to use wheel bearing grease on my L28 oil pumps which worked well, but I think the drill primer method works the best.

Tim

[Drax240z]

Cool guys, thanks a lot for the info. Some stuff came up so I couldn't spend as much time on the car as I was hoping to today. Everything is well lubed, so I am not much worried about doing damage cranking dry. I am going to try to track down a primer for a drill tomorrow however.

[Drax240z]

So basically all you are doing by using the pump primer is spinning the oil pump a whole bunch before start up, until it primes itself? In theory, shouldn't a bunch of cranking over do the same thing in the end? (though its a bit more trouble) Only reason I ask is because today is the last day I'll have to work on the car for a few weeks at least.

[grumpyvette]

Break-in and Installation Instructions

 

PROTECT THE INVESTMENT YOU HAVE IN YOUR ENGINE.

TAKE THE TIME TO READ AND FOLLOW THESE RECOMMENDATIONS:

BREAK IN PROCEDURE

 

1.) Drive normally but not a continuous high speeds for the first 500 miles. Occasional quick bursts of speed followed by quick deceleration during this period, is beneficial. AVOID LUGGING!!! TRIPS AND TOWING are not recommended until after 1000 miles.

NOTE:

Applying loads to the engine for short periods of time causes increased ring pressure against cylinder walls and helps to seat the rings. This is especially important because you are "BREAKING-IN" the engine with heavy duty oils. The rapid deceleration increases vacuum and gives extra lubrication to the piston and other assemblies.

 

 

2.) IMPORTANT! AFTER 500 TO A MAXIMUM OF 1000 MILES OF SERVICE, change oil and filter and readjust the valves except, hydraulic. We also require that valve adjustments be done again after a total of 6000 miles. We require a maximum of 3000 miles between oil changes and factory recommendation on valve adjustments thereafter.

NOTE:

Add oil at 1/2 quart intervals on small capacity engines. OIL AND WATER LEVELS ARE A DRIVER OR OWNER MAINTENANCE RESPONSIBILITY, THEY MUST BE KEPT FULL. We realize that this means extra effort on your part, but it assures long and satisfactory engine performance.

 

 

3.) A heavy duty detergent oil is required. Use a good quality brand oil, Some Manufacturers require 5/30, others recommend 10/40 for 20 degrees Fahrenheit to 100 degrees Fahrenheit and use 20/50w for higher temperatures and heavy duty use.

NOTE:

In past years, it has been common practice to use non-detergent and straight weight oil during the "BREAK-IN" period because it was felt that the rings would seat quicker without the film strength additives. More recently, there has been a trend to high speed and high temperature engines, cam lobe and tappet loads also have increased to a point where it is important to use heavy duty oils which contain a EP (high pressure) additive right from the start. Rings will seat properly when moderate loads are applied as noted above in section one.

 

 

4.) Keep your engine in tune. Tune-up specifications should always be to the manufacturers recommended specifications.

 

5.) PLEASE! If you experience any trouble or even suspect a problem please contact us IMMEDIATELY! It is easier and cheaper to fix a little problem than a big one.

 

IMPORTANT ITEMS TO LOOK FOR WHEN INSTALLING

A REPLACEMENT ENGINE TO AVOID EARLY ENGINE FAILURE

 

1.) Determine why old engine failed. Check catalytic converter or computer controlled parts, check engine warning light codes, radiator, water pump, etc. Do not install replacement engine with defective components, this could cause premature failure.

2.) Compare rebuilt engine with old engine as to crankshaft flange, pilot hole and bearing, oil pan, timing cover, engine mounting provisions and cylinder head mounting holes.

3.) Prime the oil pump in any acceptable Industry Standard Method! This is very important.

4.) All related parts not furnished by us should be thoroughly cleaned.

5.) If original engine has blown and scattered pieces, such as piston particles, you Must thoroughly inspect intake manifold for foreign material to avoid destroying the new engine.

6.) Make sure that dipstick tube and dipstick are of proper length to register required amount of oil.

7.) Check motor mounts for oil soak and parting of rubber from metal.

8.) Radiator should be flow tested and thoroughly cleaned if necessary.

9.) Check radiator cap for application and operation.

10.) Replace thermostat to avoid possible failure.

11.) All hoses, radiator, heater, and by pass should be replaced if necessary.

12.) A heavy duty detergent oil is required. Use a good quality brand oil, Some Manufacturers require 5/30, others recommend 10/40 for 20 degrees Fahrenheit to 100 degrees Fahrenheit and use 20/50w for higher temperatures and heavy duty use.

13.) Always replace oil filter cartridge and flush any cooler lines. And replace oil cooler if contaminated.

14.) Oil pressure and temperature sending units may need to be replaced because they have a tendency to leak oil and register improper after a reinstall.

15.) Always install new spark plugs of proper heat range and check to make sure the spark plug wires are in good condition.

16.) Check distributor, advance controls and distributor cap for cracks.

17.) Water pump should be checked for signs of leaking.

18.) Clutch fan should be checked for proper operation.

19.) Fan belts should be checked for cracks and other defects.

20.) Check fuel pump for oil leak at pivot pin and also for fuel leaks.

21.) Check heat riser valve for proper operation.

22.) Replace paper air filter or clean oil type.

23.) Check smog components and computer sensors. Replace defective or old parts.

24.) VERY IMPORTANT!!!

Make sure radiator is full of coolant (at least 50% water and 50% antifreeze) and Engine Block is filled full before attempting to start engine.

CAUTION: Air Locks can ruin a new engine.

25.) When filling radiator make sure it is filled to proper capacity and that there are no air locks, as this can cause cracking of cylinder block and heads.

26.) Start engine, check oil pressure, adjust ignition timing to manufacturers specifications and adjust carburetor after engine has warmed up fully. Also, at this time be sure to check for any water or oil leaks.

27.) Take the car for a road test. After road testing the vehicle recheck installation, oil and water levels, look for any leaks, recheck timing and adjust carburetor if necessary. Please refer to "BREAK IN PROCEDURE" sheet for further information.

See Warranty Addendum #8

NOTE: After at least 1 hour running time and engine has cooled, retorque head and adjust valves to manufacturers specifications. On Required engines if you are not sure if this is required on your engine ASK!

and this

Reasons and causes for cam failure

 

Cam failure is rarely caused by the cam itself. The only things we can control during manufacture pertaining to cam lobe wear, are lobe taper lobe hardness and surface finish. Of all the damaged cams we have checked over the years, more than 99.99 percent have been manufactured correctly. Some people have the misconception that it is common for a cast iron flat tappet cam to occasionally have a soft lobe. We have yet to see a cast iron flat tappet cam that had a soft lobe.

 

When the cast core is made at the casting foundry, all the lobes are flame hardened. That process hardens all the lobes to a depth below the barrel of the core. That depth of hardness allows the finish cam grinder to finish grind the cam lobes with a Rockwell hardness above 50Rc. The generally accepted hardness on a finished cast cam should be between 48Rc to 58Rc.

 

All of the finished cams that we have checked are always above 50Rc hardness on the lobes. Many outside factors, or a combination of factors, can cause cam failures. We will list some of the factors we have determined that may cause camshaft failure.

 

1. Lobe wear

 

A) Incorrect break-in lubricant. Use only the Moly Paste, Part Number 99002-1 that is included with the cam. This Moly Paste must be applied to every cam lobe surface, and to the bottom of every lifter face of all flat tappet cams. Roller tappet cams only require engine oil to be applied to the lifters and cam. Also, apply the Moly Paste to the distributor gears on the cam and distributor for all camshafts. For extra protection, an anti-wear additive should be added, such as Crane Super Lube, Part Number 99003-1.

 

 

NOTE: Do not use synthetic oil during the break-in period. It is not recommended to use any type of oil restrictors to the lifter galley, or use windage trays, baffles,or plug any oil return holes in the valley. Oil has a two-fold purpose, not only to lubricate, but to draw the heat away from whatever it comes in contact with. The cam needs oil splash from the crankcase, and oil run-back from the top of the engine to help draw the heat away. Without this oil flow, all the heat generated at the cam is transferred to the lifter, which can contribute to it's early demise.

Correct break-in procedure.

 

After the correct break-in lubricant is applied to the cam and lifters, fill the crankcase with fresh non-synthetic oil. Prime the oil system with a priming tool and an electric drill so that all oil passages and the oil filter are full of oil. Pre-set the ignition timing and prime the fuel system. Fill the cooling system. Start the engine. The engine should start quickly and run between 1500 and 3000 rpm.

 

If the engine will not start, don't continue to crank for long periods, as that is very detrimental to the life of the cam. Check for the cause and correct. The engine should quickly start and be run between 1500 to 3000 rpm. Vary the rpm up and down in this rpm range during the first 15 to 20 minutes, (do not run the engine at a steady rpm). During this break-in time, verify that the pushrods are rotating, as this will show that the lifters are also rotating. If the lifters don't rotate, the cam lobe and lifter will fail. Sometimes you may need to help spin the pushrod to start the rotation process during this break-in procedure.

 

(a) Note: Lifter rotation is created by a taper ground on the cam lobe and the convex shape of the face of the flat tappet lifter. Also in some cases, the lobe is slightly offset from the center of the lifter bore in the block. If the linear spacing of the lifter bores in the block is not to the correct factory specifications, or the angle of the lifter bore is not 90 degrees to the centerline of the cam, the lifter may not rotate.

 

Even if the engine you’re rebuilding had 100,000 miles on it and the cam you removed had no badly worn lobes, this still doesn't mean that your block is made correctly. It just means that the break in procedure caused everything to work correctly. Be careful to watch the pushrods during break in to verify lifter rotation. Don't assume everything will work correctly the second time.

 

( Note: Always use new lifters on a new flat tappet cam. If you are removing a good used flat tappet cam and lifters and are planning to use them again in the same (or another) engine, you must keep the lifters in order as to what lobe of the cam they were on. The lifter breaks-in to the specific lobe it is mated with and it can't be changed. If the used lifters get mixed up, you should discard them and install a new set of lifters and break the cam in again as you would on a new cam and lifters. You can use new lifters on a good used cam, but never try to use used lifters on a new cam.

 

© Note: Roller tappet cams don’t require any break-in. You can use roller lifters over again on a new cam if they are in good condition. There will be, of course, no lifter or pushrod rotation with the use of a roller tappet cam.

 

C) Spring pressure

 

Normal recommended spring seat pressure for most mild street-type flat tappet cams is between 85 to 105 lbs. More radical street and race applications may use valve spring seat pressure between 105 to 130 lbs. For street hydraulic roller cams, seat pressure should range from 105 to 140 lb. Spring seat pressure for mechanical street roller cams should not exceed 150 lb. Race roller cams with high lift and spring pressure are not recommended for street use, because of a lack of oil splash onto the cam at low speed running to help cool the cam and lubricate the lifters. This high spring pressure causes the heat created at the cam to be transferred to the roller wheel, resulting in its early failure. Any springs that may be used must be assembled to the manufacturer’s recommended height. Never install springs without verifying the correct assembled height and pressures.

 

Note: Increased spring pressure from a spring change and/or increased valve lift can hinder lifter rotation during cam break-in. We have found that decreasing spring pressure during the break-in period will be a great help. This can be accomplished by using a shorter ratio rocker arm to lower the valve lift; and/ or removing the inner spring, during the cam break-in time, if dual springs are being used.

 

D) Mechanical interference.

 

There are many factors that can cause mechanical interference.

 

(1) Spring coil bind: This is when all of the coils of the spring (outside, inside or flat damper) contact each other before the full lift of the valve. We recommend that the spring you are using be capable of traveling at least .060" more than the valve lift of the cam from its assembled height.

 

(2) Retainer to seal/ valve guide boss interference. You need at least .060" clearance between the bottom of the retainer and the seal or the top of the valve guide when the valve is at full lift.

 

(3) Valve to piston interference: this occurs when a change in cam specs. (i.e.; lift, duration or centerline) is enough to cause this mechanical interference. Also: increased valve size, surfacing the block and/or cylinder head may cause this problem. If you have any doubt, piston to valve clearance should be checked. Minimum recommended clearance: .080" intake and .100" exhaust.

 

(4) Rocker arm slot to stud interference: As you increase valve lift, the rocker arm swings farther on its axis. Therefore the slot in the bottom of the rocker arm may run out of travel, and the end of the slot will contact the stud and stop the movement of the rocker arm. The slot in the rocker arm must be able to travel at least .060" more than the full lift of the valve. Some engine families, like small block Chevrolet, have stamped steel rocker arms available in long and extra long slot versions for this purpose.

 

2) Distributor gear wear.

 

The main cause for distributor gear wear is the use of high volume or high-pressure oil pumps. We don’t recommend the use of these types of oil pumps. If you do run these types of oil pumps, you can expect short life of the cam and distributor gears, especially for low speed running, in street type applications. If you must run these types of oil pumps, you can increase the life of the gears by adding more oil flow over the gear area to help cool off the point of contact.

 

Note: distributors that have end play adjustment (up and down movement of distributor shaft and gear), Maintain a maximum of .010" end play, to help prevent premature wear.

 

3) Camshaft end play.

 

Some engines have a thrust plate to control the forward and backward movement of the cam. The recommended end play on these types of engines is between .003" to .008". Many factors may cause this end play to be changed. When installing a new cam, timing gears, or thrust plates, be sure to verify end play after the cam bolts are torqued to factory specs. If the end play is excessive, it will cause the cam to move back in the block, causing the side of the lobe to contact an adjacent lifter.

 

4) Broken dowel pins or keys.

 

The dowel pin or Woodruff key does not drive the cam; the torque of the timing gear bolt, or bolts, against the front of the cam drives the cam. Some reasons for the dowel pin or key failing are: Bolts not being torqued to correct specs; Incorrect bolts of a lower grade being used; Stretching and losing torque; Not using the correct hardened washer that may distort and cause torque of the bolt to change; LocTite not being used; Or some interference with the cam and lifters or connecting rods causing the cam to stop rotation.

 

5) Broken cam

 

A broken cam is usually caused by the cam being hit by a connecting rod, or other rotating parts of the engine coming loose and hitting the cam. When this happens, the cam will usually break in more than two-pieces. Sometimes the cam will break in two pieces after a short time of use because of a crack or fracture in the cam due to rough handling during shipping, or some time before installation. If a cam becomes cracked or fractured due to rough handling, it will generally not be straight.

 

Most people will not have any means of checking cam straightness. As a general rule, if you can install the cam in the engine and install the timing gear, the cam should turn freely with just your finger pressure. There should not be any drag or resistance in turning the cam. This free turning of the cam is assuming that if new cam bearings were installed, they were the correct parts and they were installed correctly.

 

Note: When removing a used cam that may be worn, you may have difficulty turning or removing it. This may not mean that the cam is cracked or fractured. The heat generated at the cam during the failure of the cam lobe, and/or lifter, will distort the cam and cause it not to be straight any more.

 

KNOW THIS

http://www.exxon.com/exxon_lubes/tigerbytes/documents/brochures/bro0020.htm#synthetic

 

http://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html

 

http://www.fernblatt.com/longhurst/engineoil_bible.html

 

BUY AND USE THIS

 

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=7881&prmenbr=76

[Pilgrim]

That break-in info seems somewhat dated. I wonder how many drivers under 40 years old even know that non-detergent oil exists? And some of the links at the bottom are no longer good.

[KiwiCowboy]

Trying to find non-detergent oil is almost impossible. Best place I found is a FBO at any airport. They stock detergent and non-detergent.

[sstallings]

Quick answer to your last question (the difference between priming and just cranking the engine) is that with the first methods discussed, only the oil pump is spinning until you get some pressure and flow through the engine. If you rely on cranking, the pistons, rods, cam, lifters, rockers, and valves are also moving through their full motion without oil flow. Even if you used a good moly-based assembly lube, you don't want everything to run dry before you get some pressure and adequate flow to the top end of the engine. Priming the pump is good, cheap insurance.