PhaTTy Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 how about a L28 with a good turbo or twin turbos? And how much and what would be involved in a 350 w/ turbo or N/A and also possibly considering the GN w/ turbo now... let me know which one would be easier to do and the best performance... the 3.8L v6 (GN I believe) sounds nice but don't know how much it would cost to fix her up and what prices and ease of install we are talking about.. what ALL would need to be changed for the GN setup? And how easy is it to put turbo/turbos on that or a supercharger on that? What kind of stock HP does it put out compared to a fixed up one? Lots of questions and hope lots of answers come Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 IMHO, dollar for dollar, a V8 will outperform a L6 (N/A or boosted) hands down, all day everyday, and the V8 will be more driveable/streetable. The V8 will weigh less than a Turbo L6 also. It's a no brainer. The only other direction (high HP) that I would (and have) considered going, is the GN Turbo. The V8 is also almost infinitely upgradeable, whereas you will eventually reach the HP wall with the L6. Just my 2c worth. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhaTTy Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 but how much would it cost for the V8 conversion compared to the GN conversion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Vee Eight heh.. my dad is a 14 year ASE certified race mechanic and he says the OHC 2.8 can be beefed up to beat ANY 350 due to the weight/design. I'm going turbo, but most of my experience comes from Chevy V8s. Cube for cube, how are you going to beat a V8? We aren't talking Ford flatheads either. Any 350? I look at things from a factual, and scientific standpoint (so I think anyhow), and it is just not possible to beat "any" V8 when you have less cubes, unless we are talking Hondas experimental 250cc V8 I had around 480 HP in my LT1, which is not at all the best V8 out there, yet even in my overweight 3450 pound car it was streetable with stock 3.42 rear gears. If one wanted between 300 or 1200 HP or more, it can be done with a V8, and you will have a broader powerband (NA vs NA, Turbo vs Turbo, etc), thanks to your cubes. Another huge advantage, my NA car ran off 91 octane gas here in CA, if you push the limits with a turbo engine expecting to match my 480 HP I expect some fancy intercooling if your going to be able to take it on the track for 25 minute runs as I have. In other words lets be serious here, you can do great things with the L28 but it is not going to match a V8 unless your talking expensively built up L28 versus junkyard piece of crap, $100 almost dead V8 with no work done to it. Of course an advantage to the L28, and one of the reasons I stuck with it (for now), it will plug right in, and with the turbo I can make good bottom end torque yet still get good gas mileage. When I want more power later I dont have to do a cam swap neccessarily, I can up the boost or upgrade the turbo and fuel, provided the intercooler will handle it, and voila 50 or whatever more HP on tap, until you reach the limits of the internals. In my case I'm not rebuilding the engine, I'm probably going to run it, maybe till death, or until I do decide to have more downtime and go V8. If your looking at these huge HP numbers to "beat any V8" then expect to run a cage as well, and clean up the frame from rust as much as possible, since obviously a frame made of rust wont hold 500+ HP very long. I could ramble on and on but I've done enough already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 but how much would it cost for the V8 conversion compared to the GN conversion? Be more specific, what engine are we talking about, what transmission. You could do a V8 swap for around a grand (its been done at least once, 5.0 Ford), obviously a GN swap would cost more. Are we talking a $6,000 V8 with no transmission, or etc Bang for the buck, I considered either a 5.0 Ford (I want FI though), or just an LT1, which can make good power, get good MPG if you know how to tune it (like anything), and I know how to work on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhaTTy Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 Hrmmm.. donno.. Which GN engine/year and tranny have been used with good results.. I need to do some research.. Let me know please or else I will have to do my own research heh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 I'm not really a GN guy, if I'd go with another engine it would be a V8, so if and until then I'm going turbo L28. There is a non-intercooled GN turbo, they go relatively inexpensively but I dont know much about them, I think they are called "hot charged" or something along those lines. After that there is a later, "better" version of the GN setup, and I dont know hardly a thing about it. I know fully built up that they have seen at least around 1200 HP (very expensive I'm sure), and I only know that because a local guy with a Duttweiler setup car was making about that, before going to a V8 in his GN and is now running low 8s making 1680 HP last I heard. The only advantages I see with going V6, is weight distribution, tons of room in front for intercooler/radiator stuff. It still means fabbing up custom mounts etc, although at least someone has been there and done that, ScottiGNZ. If you run a Google search you will find info about him, and his page, and some stuff on one of the GN member sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruxGNZ Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 PhaTTy, GN engines work with automatic transmissions, did you know that? There has been a few that have mated a manual transmission up, but the GN engine likes to be loaded up to make good power. There is a GN engine/harness/laptop/ect. for sale for under $3K in the for sale section here or at http://www.turbobuicks.com, can't remember... you seem all over the board as to what you want to do with your car. You need to figure out your goals, then ask more questions. FWIW, my car, suspension upgrades, wheels/tires, GN engine ,transmission 2004R, everything to get it running will run under $8k now. But I got some very good deals. Not bad for a projected mid 11 second car with stock turbo and pretty much stock engine. !M![/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhaTTy Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 Hrmmm.. my goals are 12 second at most... 11 second would be nice.. I would not mind having dual turbos or a supercharger.. Basically I want a very fast 0-60 car and having it go pretty quick up to 1/4 mile range also. I am debating whether to fix up the L28, go 350, or go GN.. That is why I am all over I have no clue what each option would be able to give me. I have done some research but would like a good comparison of what could be done with all three and which one is most cost effective.. Sorry for posting like crazy trying to make my mind up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Heck if thats all you want, you could do easy 12s with a turbo L28 and some upgrades. There is a Datsun 510 that posted a 10 the other day, with some modest upgrades to a Turbo L28 and a shot of nitrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhaTTy Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 Hrmm... so 11 seconds is possible with a little work.. say a 3.1 stroker with turbo or twin turbo? I was starting to get the picture that it was not possible from other people on the board but maybe I just misunderstood... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 10 seconds is tougher, but 11s or 12s yeah, there are NA guys in the 12s. I'm not a big stroker guy, because its so much hassle and money, but you could go that route. If you just want to rebuild it and go with better pistons, shot peened rods etc, you could just go 2.9/3.0L or something, and avoid the stroker issues, then you can put in forged pistons too, then you can go for 400-500 HP or whatever you felt like, so long as its built for it. I'm just going to run a "junkyard" block so to speak, form a donor car, no rebuild here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhaTTy Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 Yeah I was thinking junkyard F54 block with N47 head... So I have seen a lot of info on the 3.1 stroker but not really a lot on building it up to 2.9/3.1 with forged pistons and all.. Have you done this or know anybody who has.. And I am sure it is a lot more affordable to do that than the stroker hassle.. But what all is involved in this.. I have done searched but not a lot of info on anything except the stroker buildup.. That sounds a whole lot better to me than swapping engines or trying for the stroker.. So PLEASE let me know what would need to be done.. Sorry for bothering you guys with this so much. I just want to do this right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 N42 or N47? N47 is a round port head, I'm not going to say they suck, but almost everyone sticks with the rectangle exaust port heads, which the turbo manifold will bolt up too, not the round port N47 though. http://www.zhome.com/rnt/3.1HanveyProject.htm 3.1 L Stroker Myths and Legends Revealed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhaTTy Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 ok.. I had looked at that also.. N42 would probably be better for headers.. especially if I want headers with a turbo setup.. 1 step down.. 500 to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 If you didn't want headers, the turbo setup would not bolt up, since the P90 turbo setup is a rectangular part I'm still not 100% coherant on how headers are being fabbed with rectangular parts, but I haven't made measurements, maybe I will do that later today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhaTTy Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 right now I have the P90 head (not P90a) .. on my car but was thinkin about the N42 for higher compression but do not know how this would work on a turbo/tt car with the 2.9/3.0 buildup... I still want it to run on 91/92 octane without problems and not blowing anything. But would definitely like headers for the sound/flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 More compression on a turbo car will limit your boost abilities before finding knock (deadly), but give you a bit more bottom end torque. However, these cars do just fine with the torque they have especially being they are so light. So, use the N42 for a reason other than compression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Hrmm... so 11 seconds is possible with a little work.. say a 3.1 stroker with turbo or twin turbo? I was starting to get the picture that it was not possible from other people on the board but maybe I just misunderstood... You can run 11's on a bone stock L28ET. Invest in a good FI, fuel system, turbo and intercooler. You said earlier you were on a budget. With a turbo setup, you don't have to touch the inside of the engine - that's when things get expensive, and for 11's (high 11's at elevation) almost un-necessary. Twin turbo is not necessary, and neither is a stroker. I'm sure they are fun to do, but they will cost $$$$. V8 will get you there N/A, and be one of the cheapest driveable solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhaTTy Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 Yeah but I do not wish to embark on a V8 conversion as lots of things have to be changed.. I don't mind spending money on the inside engine work at all.. I just wanted the most afforable for the performance if you know what I mean.. I would like to put a cap on the project at $4000 for right now ($2500 would be for the Clifford 6=8 intake, fuel system, 4 barrel wet TB, and 42# injectors, and bosch regulator) .. so that leaves me with $1500 if I decide to go with that intake setup. Let me know your ideas on the intake setup and also what all could be done for around $1500-$2000 for the engine/turbos.. Thanks so much for putting up with my questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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