mobythevan Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 I got all of my wiring finished last night. I checked the operation of the fuel pump relay. Turn key on and realy turns on for 5 seconds then shuts off. Also cranked engine over a little and I have spark. So I sent the gas can with my wife today so she can fill it. Tonight I will start the engine. I live out in the sticks, so I didn't want to make a trip to town for gas last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 No luck yet, I have a detailed email from another swapper on some things to check yet again, I can post it. He also drew out a nice diagram of things to check with the VOM on the 82 ZXT sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 Not sure if you made any headway on your Z but, While working onmy Z last night around 2am, I was thinking about your situation - as you can tell, random thoughts while working every night for 4-5 hours on your Z by yourself...i'm sure you understand. Anyway, thinking about where you're at with this last email and thinking back to my days as a car audio/video installer, I have a gut feeling you are missing ground somewhere. I've had this happen to me many times doing high end systems in cars and it turned out to be the simplest thing, like a missing/dirty ground. I just have a feeling, since it seems like you've checked and rechecked everything. I'm looking at the schematic now to see what makes the injectors fire. I just color coded it just to follow it easier (I'll attach it) Lets see if I can get this 35 year old brain working.... Ok...looks like a green from one of the three harnesses off of the ECCS goes to a fusible link and also to the each of the injectors. You say you've got voltage at all of the greens at the injectors so that should rule that out. Off of that same fusible link is a Brown which, when the relay coil gets energized, it supplies voltage to one of the Black/Whites which goes to the middle plug on the ECCS (per schematic), the Crank Angle Sensor and VSV (both sides of it for EGR and ISC). Ok. The relay gets tripped by receiving voltage from the other Black/White that runs from plug #3 of the main harness. Also, the ground side of that relay connects to the main grounding point I babble about below. So...i guess the only thing I would be looking at here is if the Black/white wire that runs back to the ECCS to the middle plug (per schematic) has voltage, back at the ECCS. It should be getting 12v whenever that Black/white from plug #3 from the main harness gets it's 12v and trips the relay. Not sure what that 12v inside the ECCS does, but worth a shot. I'd check it right at the plug. Ok, Looking at the schematic, on that one plug on the ECCS, It has 4 main grounds on it that seems to all join together. Also on this same plug includes all the individual wires that go to each injector. I would check this plug in the ECCS for a good contact. Did you happen to try a known working ECCS? Just wondering if by accident that maybe this one portion of the ECCS, that this plug is connected to, may have gotten burnt somehow. Just a random thought and for someone like me, I wouldn't happen to have a spare ECCS laying around to try this so don't think I'm saying you should either! ha. I would also check where all the grounds are commonly grounded. When I ripped the harness out of the '82ZXT last week, I noticed what looked to be this "common ground" bolted to a bracket that holds the main harness to the intake manifold, right where it started to break out for the injectors. If this is where the common grounds are ending up, I'd check the contact here. It looks like the EFI relay ground ends in this same place also. Also, I'd check to make sure the Intake manifold is giving those grounds and good ground (how's that for a tongue twist? haha) Not sure how the motor gets it's GOOD ground other than if you have the neg battery cable to the starter and a ground strap from battery to frame/firewall or a strap from the motor to the frame/firewall. Looking again at the schematic I attached...that damn fusible link. I'm not sure if you've eliminated it but, this is what I see - The green wire: supplies voltage to all the injectors(which you say you have)and supplies power to that same plug on the ECCS with the common grounds and individual injector wires. I think your problem is right here. Inside this ECCS, It must have some sort of micro relay(s) for this plug that when, when tripped, connects those grounds, or at least one of them, to the individual injectors. I bet that green from the fusible link is the one side (12v) of the coil on the micro relay(s) and something from one of the other plugs sends negative pulses, tripping the relay(S) which sends negative pulses to the injectors and fires them off. Maybe not, but this seems logical to me. I would check this plug over closely at the ECCS because it seems like it would be causing the exact problems you're having...make sure all the Blacks have strong grounds - at least the 4 that go to that common ground because the 5th goes to the air regulator which doesn't matter. Make sure the green is supplying 12v when key in ON, Cranking and Run position. Not sure if you eliminated the fusible link and are pulling power for that green from somewhere that is not giving 12v during cranking. No 12v during crank/run, no firing injectors. Also, that brown wire to the that same fusible link that supplies the EFI relay with 12v...If that doesn't give 12v while cranking/run position, the relay will never trip and connect the Black/Whites together...giving 12v back to the middle plug of the ECCS (per schematic) Ok....i've rambled enough. SORRY! Check the fusible link, or where you connected the green and the brown that used to go to the fusible link, for 12v when cranking/running...not just when the ign turned on. Sorry for this long email. Just thinking out loud and hate to see you struggling right at the end of something good! I'll probably be in the same boat in about a week! Ha. I'm trying and I hope you solved it or, this will help and not waste your time. Once again, sorry for the long mail. Good Luck and let me know where you're at. Things like this drive me nuts, but I love to figure them out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 http://zdriver.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=3499 Shoot, I see it crops the image size (here is limited to 640x480 I think also), I can email it if you like, should be around 225kB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted April 11, 2003 Author Share Posted April 11, 2003 Everthing I tie to ground I then measure with the DMM to make sure it is grounded. I also ground my battery to the engine block. I then plan to add a braid for good grounding between the block and the car body. Being an electircal guy I always check the path of the current when wiring stuff up. Its too bad your not closer, I could give you a hand. But you'll figure it out. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 Thanks Moby, I swear I have half a brain, or approximately thereof, but seriously I question myself a bit because this is sure taking forever. Right now I have one ground to block (and only 10g I think), and 2 "good" grounds from the battery to the frame. I will add at least one more to the block, some of my accessory grounds are coming from wiring to the battery @ the framerail. I am going to check these few things mentioned, and if that doesn't do the trick, I'm going back to step 1 and check everything again, trusting nothing basically. If that doesn't do it still, then I have to make the assumption, diz/ecu and/or injectors are at fault, then I can troubleshoot those as well. I'll try checking the injector resistance too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Looking at the diz stuff, with the ECU connectors plugged in: BW-B short together BW-GY resistance but shorted BW-GB same GB Has resistance to all other connections, but shorted This is with the distributor unhooked from the harness, so I'm using the plug that goes into the diz, without the ECU connectors plugged in the above scenario is not valid, nothing shorts to each other. So is this something the ECU is doing, or is this somewhere else in the harness? Because, I do not see a reason for this in the wiring schematic...? Facing this "microphone" style connector, its B------GY (female) ---------- GB----BW (male) Wiring diagram shows: B ground and ECU GY ECU only GB to ECU only BW EFI relay, ECU, and BW vacuum solenoid, and ISC solenoid. So, should I rewire the diz or is this true on other turbo cars also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Looking at yet another diagram (ECCS) B Pins 28/36 GY Pin 8 (shows pin 5 on 83 ECCS though?) GB Pin 17 BW 35/27 BW and B are both grounds or grounded, but I dont see where, guess thats OK though. As for the resistance in the others, I guess thats just circuitry. All pins check out, except for the GY being on 8, not pin 5 as my 83 diagram shows, but the car is an 82. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Went to the Kragens today, and they got in a bunch of manuals, one of them a Chiltons for 70-88 Z cars, so hopefully that will fill in some of the blanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceguy678us Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Mudge if you are seriously going to make a COMPLETE write-up about the turbo swap, it will be hailed as one of the single most useful links on my computer! I have been in and out of so many different nickel and dime hints and tips that I am so lost it's unreal, but still no true step by step since I have a brain disorder when it comes to wiring. I might need to contact you after I get the motor in, when I get to the wireup, if that's o.k. with you. Oh and by the way I have a complete 81'ZXT motor/wiring harness going into a 260Z, was wondering if the 82-83 wiring harness could be used instead of the 81 but still use the 81 components and brain, or would I have to change the crank trigger to the dizzy trigger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 The wiring harness did change, and in fact I see that 82 and 83 are not exactly 100% alike either (pin 5/8 discrepancy so far). 82+ is the better year though if you can convert, any timing chain slop will affect your CPS and thusly timing etc, so its a bit more of a PITA issue, I have heard of failures with that sensor due to its location also? hmm I have no problem making a write up, honestly there is not a ton of things to cover, I am baffled as to why my car is not cooperating, but thankfully a couple others have thier cars going so this is further proof it should not be so difficult. I know one other person though that I have email contact with, that had a running car and transplanted everything over to his 260, and he can't get his running either. So I'm either missing something very obvious/stupid, or I have a problem. I have pinned out everything "important" between 2 and 8 times depending what it is, and still can't find the problem just yet. So I'm hoping the Chiltons is my doorway into fixing the problem, or the Clymer that is on its way... This is the first time in a few years that I've felt like such a retard, oh well. Its either me, or its the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffp Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 if you like give me a call at (714) 966-0108 and maybe I can put you on the right track to getting the wiring correct and working. I have done alot of work on the turbo harness. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 I feel a prank call coming on. HAHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 I'll put my notes together and give you a buzz, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatsunBoy77 Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Alright i didnt want to ask here, hence my seperate post, but, how many sensors are comming out of the t-stat housing, and how many rongs are comming off them. This is the last part of the wiring to be finished. Then i will be done. It runs now but it is pouring fuel in and makin it stall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 One thing to check is the signal to I think pin 5 that Moby brought up, since the car wont enter closed loop without this wired correctly. I have 2 connectors coming out of mine, one is a bullet waiting for a connector and the other is a bullet connector off a wire. I removed the diz today to test the signal back to the ECU, zero volts if diz not turning, and I get voltage when I turn it by hand, so the diz is fine. I'm suspecting the computer now, because of the fused links being wired backwards before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatsunBoy77 Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 see, i have one bullet and one with the two prongs comming out as the same way he fuel injectors are. I think this is the one for the 77. I will see if i can find the right sensor somewheres. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted April 14, 2003 Author Share Posted April 14, 2003 Mudge, I didn't ever have the diz connector unplugged, so I never checked anything out there. How did you hook up the fusible links that they were backwards before, I don't remember reading about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 It was awhile back, I didn't have a manual and someone that has done the conversion before, told me the fusible links were a ground (oops). I had thought they were + before simply based on how the battery terminals reached vs the other one (2 ground spots), as well as them having green and red colors not all black, so when I plugged in the fusible links, the ACC link blew instantly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Did more testing on the diz today, diz is perfect. However, finally after unwiring the fuel pump, and turning the diz by hand, I could clearly hear some injector clicking going on. So, I unhooked every injector, and then hooked them up one by one while turning the diz, I only get firing from injector #3 and #5. I pulled injector #3 and I could smell fuel. So I'm going to hunt down some injectors or a place to clean the stockers, and then go from here. If that somehow doesn't fix the problem, I can feel stupid all over again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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