280Z turbo engine, how to get 12.1 et reliability

[Guest firebern]

 

Yep, the title says it all. I am about to get a turbo engine

and I will probably rebuild it before putting it into the car

so I want to know what I would need to do to the engine

to be able to get 12.1 et on the quartermile.

 

From the start, I guess

 

a metal head gasket, HKS?

injectors? what size

Chip or fuel controller?

Pistons?

Crank?

Piston rings, Total seal?

crank bearing?

oil pump?

 

You get what I mean, I want all info

(PARTS AND WHERE TO FIND THOSE)

 

[Lockjaw]

I would get forged pistons, rings are not that critical as long as they are good quality rings for a forced induction engine. I would have the reciprocating assembly balanced, and run ARP rod bolts.

 

Use a turbo oil pump. You will need an intercooler, a good sized hybrid turbo at minimum and some sort of aftermarket engine management. Run a 3 inch mandrel exhaust. Probably looking for a 550 cc injector, and running a good fuel pump, and you will also need to look into getting a better clutch then stock.

 

That said, there are people who have done it on a stock motor, using various other methods, and while they may run 12.1's, doing it reliably on a stock engine without good engine management will enrich your local parts guys wallet, if you ask me.

 

Spend the money wisely and where it counts so you can enjoy the power for years, rather then months. Better to overbuild your engine rather then underbuild it.

[Guest firebern]

I'll be starting from a turbo engine...

 

What's the best place to get forged pistons for a Z? 8)

 

Would a fuel controller with a air/fuel ratio gauge

with some 550cc injectors be sufficient?

I guess I will have to upgrade the fuel regulator too.

I already have a 55 gph fuel pump that

I used for my old setup(ford 302 ).

 

As for turbo, should I go T3 or T3/T4?

 

A stage 2 clutch is what I am probably going to end up buying

and a ligthweigth freewheel. 3 Inch exhaust is definitely part of the plan.

 

I am really more worried about the engine internals,

all the stuff we mentionned above is easy to find and

replace, what's not is the turbo engine .

[Lockjaw]

There is someone working on a group buy from Ross Racing pistons, but you can also get them from JE, Arias, and Weisco. Some of the specialty Z shops such as Topend, and probably Sunbelt, Robello, etc have them in stock, but you pay for that convenience.

 

YOu need a t3/t4 hybrid, unless you plan on running NOS.

 

I am not a fan of the fuel computer add on, I guess you could do that if you like, but the better method would be to get something aftermarket like an SDS, Tec III or run the JWT set-up, which is what I have.

 

The main thing I don't like about the stock EFI is the AFM and the door, and it is not very adaptive. Drivability with something more modern, like the JWT set-up or a properly tuned aftermarket set-up will make you a believer.

[rags]

Fire,

If your interested in the group buy on the pistons, shoot me an email and Let you know the specifics. So far I have 11 people interested and with that amount a complete set will be about $550. That includes pistons, rings, pins and locks.

 

Joe

[Guest Zcarsmakemyheadhurt]

Hey man you forgot to tell us what your gonna spend. I would inspect the engine. If it has chunks of piston in the pan your screwed ofcourse, but if the piston skirts are Ok and the engine looks like it never has been boosted replace the head gasket with a felpro and throw it in. Everyone knows the engines are strong and I have seen plenty of ZXT's run 12's on junk motors. Spend the money of the fuel computer, injectors and fuel supply. If you get that right the car will last. If you would like a short cut to the 11's check this.

 

http://hybridz.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20242

[Guest firebern]

11.49 !! in a 83, holy smokes, imagine that setup in a stripped 78

 

Sounds like a winning combination. My goal for this summer

is to burn my friend's mustang big time 8) , lots of corvettes

and particularly a 94 Rx-7 that did 12.8 last summer .

 

"Stock L28T short block with custom sheetmetal intake, "

 

Any plans for that sheet metal intake manifold?

 

I am still seeking my turbo engine, got problems with finding one close

or picking up one far away(truck and trailer...).

 

I need everybody's help for this next question:

 

Here's the latest news, I found a guy who has a complete 83 turbo

but with 169 000 miles. He is the original owner. The frame is rusted out, he said he was driving it last year.

 

He mentioned the engine misfired on the first cylinder, could that be worst

than a faulty distributor?

 

Would the T5 still be good after all these miles?

 

Would an engine with this much mileage be worthy of a rebuild?

 

Should I buy it?

[Mudge]

Shoot if your gonna rebuild it, dont even sweat miles. Only thing I'd ask is if it had been rebuilt before, or head shaved, etc, your going to bore the cylinder anyway. The only thing miles does to a block is give it a long term heat treatment, some racers bake thier blocks before machining for this reason - strength.

[Scottie-GNZ]

This is one of my favorite topics of discussion and I agree with Alex.

 

If there is unlimited budget or this will be one of those "...and this turbo engine must run 12.1 on the street with pump gas" projects, then go for the gold, err forged. Being able to run 12.1 with a turbo engine requires ONE thing: HP AND no detonation. HUH? He said one thing then listed two, and that is correct because those two things in a turbo engine are one and the same. You cannot make HP if you have detonation. Forged pistons do not make HP or eliminate detonation. They stand up to detonation better. Regardless of whether you use stock or forged pistons, you still need to avoid detonation to make the HP needed to run 12.1. The way to avoid detonation is to have an efficient turbo and I/C, free-flowing exhaust, adequate fueling (pump/FRP/injs/octane) and good engine management system. yes, thats right. Those are all the things that make HP. That is where your focus should be initially. Next, having all that HP is useless if you cannot put it to ground and cut a decent 60'. Tires are critical and street tires are useless. Wider/bigger is not always better. Here compound is the key. Next, do you want to run 12.1 on pump gas on the street or do you want to run 12.1 on the track? I am not into street racing so I have a different perspective on that. If you want to run 12.1 on the street with pump gas you have to build an engine that can run low-11$ all-out then detune it for the street. If you want 12.1 at the track, then have a way to control boost so you can run say 13psi on the street with pump gas then go to the track, add some octane and crank up the boost to say 18psi.

 

So, to sum up. If money is no object, go for all the trick stuff like forged pistons, headers, etc, but you still need all the components to avoid detonation and provide maximum launch traction. If budget is tight, freshen up the head, go for the other items and be patient and learn how to tune, tune, tune, tune and you will be rewarded. If you take the time to understand the basics of turbochrging and fuel injection and learn to tune, you won't have to buy components that can make 450hp to make the 320 required to run 12.1.

 

The 2 biggest gains you will find when wanting to go quick at the track will cost you NOTHING, NADA. They are learning how to tune to maximize what you got and being one with the car at the track. Both take lots of practice and patience and unfortunately most folks cannot deal with that. You are not going to run 12.1 the first time out. Not even close. It might take several trips to the trap to attain it. Just remember, every .1 in the 60' affects the ET by .15, and that is where you make the most gains when you start running.

[Guest firebern]

I forgot about the head shaving...

 

Is this a big concern?

Can a thicker metal head gasket fix a thinner head?

 

The owner did mention he raced it big time in the

Porsche club. That's why I am thinking of a rebuild

the compression must be low. But then these 83 engines

are wedge so its a strong block

 

I'll go talk to my machine shop a bit this afternoon.

 

 

Have you guys read this web site:

http://www.geocities.com/zgarage2001/rebuild.html

 

 

 

Later

[Guest Zcarsmakemyheadhurt]

If the parts car you are looking at has never been boosted your better off. If you can perform a compression test and the engine passes with less than 10% difference from cylinder to cylinder its a candidate. I don't like T5's. Find a good engine to start with then keep the forum in touch for the next step, or you can get in touch with me. Good luck.

[Guest firebern]

My machine shop said that I'll be taking a big chance in rebuilding an engine with such mileage.

 

8) I'll start off the conversion with this block and find another one later

this summer(the guy wants 300$ for the whole car). At least I'll have the

wiring harness, tranny, and all the other stuff for it , then I'll only have to switch the block . As you all know finding these babies in the north east is pretty tough.

 

Anyways, how come you don't like those T5s?

Have you sold your car yet?

[Guest JAMIE T]

No offense dude, but your machine shop obviously doesn't know jack about Datsun/Nissan L6's. I'll bet you $20 that it still has cross hatch in the bores AND, you won't need to cut a ridge out to remove the pistons. Shoot, you could probably run a ball hone through it, re-ring and bearing that sucker and get ANOTHER 100K out of it. Keep it fueled and oiled, no problems!

[SleeperZ]

My machine shop said that I'll be taking a big chance in rebuilding an engine with such mileage.

 

Anyways' date=' how come you don't like those T5s?

Have you sold your car yet?[/quote']

 

Your shop is blowing smoke up you know where. Nissan L28s get better with age - I have a bottom end with 170k, boosted, with cross-hatching still visible, and no ridge.

 

And not everyone dislikes T5s - I like mine very much. An aftermarket shifter and some synthetic fluid - NICE!

[Guest firebern]

Well, that's what i think too the guy knows jack shit of these engines.

But still i am going to take the swap as it is and buy an extra engine

just in case 8) . i am going to run 12 PSI of boost on the engine and see

how long it will survive, that will be good for all of us to know .

if I blow something and the engine is rebuildable, I'll do it on my own

meanwhile I'll put the other engine in the car, that way i can take my time

to do it rigth and save some to put more in the performance parts .

 

Anybody ever built a turbo stroker engine(maxima diesel crank)

or does that make no sense?

[Guest firebern]

Hey! I'll have a similar setup, 78 Z, 83 engine, cool!

What's the 87 ECCS?

How much boost where you running for that 13.23?

 

'78Z, '83 L28ET, '87 ECCS

Speed doesn't kill, stopping does.

13.23 @ 104

 

As for the T5, I've learned today that the gearing is too short

and a 82-83 NA 5 speed with a 3.9 rear diff has a better

gearing ratio for the 1/4 mile, any comments?

[SleeperZ]

I am running a factory Z31 ECU - Nissan's acronym for the unit is ECCS. I ran my 13s with a stock fuel system and intercooler boosted to 14 psi (equivalent to 12 psi or so, sea level).

 

I ran my times with a 3.90 on my T5. Yes, 1st is too short, but I'm swapping back to a 3.54, which is roughly equivalent to the 81-83 tranny with a 3.90. At the end of the strip I am getting close to the top of fourth gear -- as far as I'm concerned, that is the only ratio that counts.

[Lockjaw]

I got a T5 with 3.90's in my ZX and I like it. Plus you can go and get a hurst shifter for an early model Mustang Gt and put it in there and have nice short throws.

 

What most people like about the 82-83 trans is the better spacing between 2nd and 3rd gear. There is more of a gap on the T5. It really isn't an issue unless you have a really big laggy turbo, which I used to have, and then you have to really wind out 2nd, or you drop out of boost.

 

I can stir up some controversy by saying my car is faster with the T5 and 3.90s then it was with 3.54's. But it is, and my track times show it. I expect to be shifting into 5th gear by the end of the 1/4 mile with this combo.

 

Either trans will work, its more up to personal taste then anything else. I like having nice short throws, like I have now, and I don't care about a short first and second, that gets into 3rd gear faster, which is where the motivation begins.

[Guest Anonymous]

Ditto with the machine shop being wrong.My block came out of a high milage 280zx non turbo.My feeling is that a mild turbo motor wirh a shot of NOS for the track would run 12.1`s with "traction" with no problem.My flared 510 has MT 13" 7.0"x24.5 slicks and I run 1.60 60' with a lsd and a pretty stiff suspention.I just wonder what a stock EFI motor would run with a tweaked AFM and 370cc inj with a mild turbo upgrade and a wet shot of NOS.