Oltmann Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Tim is correct. The function of the second O2s is to verify that the cats are working properly, if you install them on a car that doesn't have cats then the PCM will turn on the check engine light. edit: Also, as grpix1 stated, there are probably ways to sneak around this and get the sticker. I doubt the inspector would go to the trouble of running a checksum on your PCMs ROM for instance. I was talking about strict compliance with the law, because most of us who are willing to skirt the law are simply skipping the whole process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus Posted May 21, 2003 Author Share Posted May 21, 2003 I think the o2 simulators are legal in place of the second o2 sensors. The simulators are illegal for use on a 1997-2003 camaros because they require cats to be legal. The whole purpose is make sure the car has cats. The 240 doesn't need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vegeta Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I read about the Honda guys doing OBDII swaps into older chassis LEGALLY all the time, so i think the clerk is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 1996 cars have post-cat O2s also (GM anyway). Also the 1995 CA Fbodies, I forget if its stick or auto, have dual cats. At least one person on the local list has confirmed that as an owner of an original CA car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Your Car is Slow Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 02 sims are a great option. Relatively cheap too if you get them used off ebay or Cz28.com. Ive seen sets go for as little as 30 bucks. It will not impact the performance of the engine (provided you dont put the sims on the front 02s anyway ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greimann Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 I have to agree with Mr. Powers on the previous page. The referee is the final word on certifying an installation. Based on his expert judgment in the automotive field and knowledge of the state laws he will make a judgement call on whether an engine swap is up to spec. Hence the name "Referee". These guys are experts. O2 Simulators and custom PCMs will not pass inspection. My advice would be to ask a referee if an OBD II swap is possible to certify. If he says yes, then make the installation as close to the configuration of the donor car as possible, right down to the cats. Keep all of your paperwork for any aftermarket equipment and make the installation as neat and professional as possible. You are selling the look of the installation as well as technical compliance. I certified my '79 with a carburetor and the visual inspection alone took one hour. They are very through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Z Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 A friend of mine got rolled by CHP for having a modded engine in a '64 mustang a few years back - he had to remove all the hi-po stuff, bummer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Some states are now doing ONLY a PCM download to verify that the computer has not been modded, in other words maybe a checksum or a byte by byte verification. Once this is complete and checks out, and if no SES light you pass smog, I dont expect this is many states. Some others are downloading the PCMs also but not yet as a mandatory part of the smog test, I guess they are working it in. Here in CA this is not yet done that I'm aware of, however many smog dynos are being installed with cameras, FWIW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 A friend of mine got rolled by CHP for having a modded engine in a '64 mustang a few years back - he had to remove all the hi-po stuff, bummer... NO!!!! Say it aint so!!!! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Dreamer Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Why are you worried? It's a 71, so there is NO SMOG INSPECTION required! And why are people here worried about what "might happen" in the future? 99.9% of the things people worry about NEVER HAPPEN!!! Just build the damn car and if something changes in the future, then deal with it! In the mean time, HAVE SOME FUN!!!!!!!!! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Why are you worried? It's a 71' date=' so there is NO SMOG INSPECTION required! And why are people here worried about what "might happen" in the future? 99.9% of the things people worry about NEVER HAPPEN!!! Just build the damn car and if something changes in the future, then deal with it! In the mean time, HAVE SOME FUN!!!!!!!!! Mark[/quote'] Ahmen Brutha!! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Why are you worried? It's a 71' date=' so there is NO SMOG INSPECTION required! And why are people here worried about what "might happen" in the future? 99.9% of the things people worry about NEVER HAPPEN!!! Just build the damn car and if something changes in the future, then deal with it! In the mean time, HAVE SOME FUN!!!!!!!!! Mark[/quote'] Ahmen Brutha!! Tim Ditto that AND MORE! If you really want to feel good, get a "Historic Vehicle" license plate and everyone else can go pound salt!! The spirit of the law says that I don't have to have a smog check seemingly because my old car can't comply with present new car smog requirements anyway, so I'll remove the old, smoking L24 and stab in a newer, high performance Chevy V8 that runs cleaner, looks better, performs oh so well--especially with no smog restricting equipment, and everyone else can GO POUND SALT!!!!!!!!!! Less particulate matter in the air, less oil burned, me happy, planet happy, only smog Nazi not happy. Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 get a "Historic Vehicle" license plate Unfortunately that won't work either. In Maryland, a conditon for historic plates is that the car hasn't been "significantly modified from stock". I will probably not certify the swap in my 1970 Z either, but just thought the guy would like to know what the rules are before he gets started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest benjlv Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 i find it odd that everyone is talking about the PCM throughing a code for there being no cats. My 1997 intrepid's motor pucked 20,000miles ago and the cats were plugged by the radiator fluid. Since I live in michigan the previous owner just gutted the cats. The car is OBDII and has not thrown a code in the last 20,000miles why is that? I say that if a car can pass the emmissions requirements by what comes out of the tail pipe then it should be alowed. None of this other BS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greimann Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 .....I say that if a car can pass the emmissions requirements by what comes out of the tail pipe then it should be alowed. None of this other BS Mostly true, but the people who hand out registrations have a different set of rules . We either have to play by the rules or not play the game. And as in any game, be your best and play to win! Many of the technical requirements are meant to control cold start emissions and evaporative emissions, both of which can not be tested by a state agency other than by visual inspection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus Posted May 22, 2003 Author Share Posted May 22, 2003 Ok I talked to the other tech Wes today... He sounds like he is 70 and on a ventalator, but he is way betther than Jeff. He said it was very difficult to pass a OBD II but it was possible. Are you sitting down...he said the LS1 should use the stock 240z exhaust....ahahahhahaahaahhaahhhhaahahaahaahahhahahahhhahahaahahahaahahahaahhaahaahahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahahahahha...ahahh......hahahahah.haha ok i am ok. He told me this and that, but after I explain a huge amount of tech knowledge he got way cooler with me. After I told him the car should not need conveters due to its age amazingly he went along with that. The wheel sensors are now the only gray area.. Now if my car is a 71 I do not need inspections, but am i required to have engine certified? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Yes you are supposed to tell the DMV that you have changed the engine. They will send you to the Referee station. They certify the swap, not hte engine (samantics, I know). But, just like anything else on this topic, since you are not required to test it, who is going to be any the wiser? Just drop in the engine and drive....worry about the other stuff if/when it becomes an issue. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gprix1 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 the previous owner just gutted the cats. The car is OBDII and has not thrown a code in the last 20,000miles why is that? Yes, some ECUs throw a code right away when a cat is removed but most take a while (days-weeks) and possibly some never throw the code. My wifes Mitsu' Eclipse GSX (AWD turbo) takes about 4-5 days to throw a code with her cat' removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Half_Czech Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 So what determines the year of an engine in Ca? Is it just the year of the block? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greimann Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 So what determines the year of an engine in Ca? Is it just the year of the block? The casting number has some to do with it, but more importantly it is the induction system, emissions system and computer (if required). Since 350 cu. in. motors are pretty much identical from '68 to '84, the block has very little to do with it. Bottom line is if you are getting it inspected, the engine configuration had to be modeled after a specific car and year. That is why having a complete motor from a salvage yard, or a donor car is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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