Guest MulletMaster Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Hello everyone, glad to be aboard...i just would like to set something straight in my mind if you guys could help... I've owned two Datsuns when i first started driving (an 81 280zx w/speed and an 82 280zx 2+2 Auto).. Im trying to get a nice one and build it....the Zcar is a family thing, my uncle has an awesome 72 240z he used to autocross, with a 5 speed in it...of course not stock I've been wanting something similar...so here's my question... My uncle says i should get a 77-78 280z (i also have a brand new motor for one)....it has the look of a 240, and the low weight, yet has a fuel injected motor (one of the best early injection systems made)... I know the later models made more power, but i also know the 80's cars were fatter and heavier..... am i on the right track? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody 82 ZXT Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Yes your on the right track. Low weight high HP. The hot ticket on this board is to turbo a 240 or put in a V8. It's all about horsepower to weight ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKDGabe Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Welcome! More or less... the 240's weigh the least at about 2400Lbs. the 280's are about 2800Lbs. and later models only continued to gain weight. What I've wanted to do is take the 280Z (not zx) and put a turbo'd engine from the 82-83 model in it. That would be the easiest swap because it's already fuel injected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MulletMaster Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 haha, well i already have a decent V8 (300 HP, about to be around 550HP) in my 79 camaro, i've considered a V8 swap, but then basically i'd have two similar cars, just one faster one Besides, i want some higher rpms So about 400 pounds heavier huh? Mind if i ask why? Does the 77 have more "luxurious features"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 So about 400 pounds heavier huh? Mind if i ask why? Does the 77 have more "luxurious features"? More wiring, and a slightly beefier 'chassis'. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Heavier crash bumpers, thicker sheet metal and more electronics (EFI) make up the majority of the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MulletMaster Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Thanks for the assistance everyone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 If you want a race car, a 240z is the best power to weight in the z series, at the major sacrifice of some comfort vs. a 280z or zx (the most comfortable of the round headlight years) A 280z has a much beefier chassis (77-78 in particular, beefier doors), stock bigger rear end ( in five speed models and 2+2), overdrive transmission (some did come with the smaller rear end and a four speed trans, except 78s, always good to check to see what rear it has unless you plan to swap it out anyway), AC(another weight contributing factor if you think of the AC radiator type deal, the pump (AC cars generally have both front and rear sway bars), the lines, and the the part by the heater core that actually blows the air), tons more wiring, thicker subframe and thicker guage metal all the way throughout the chassis, slightly bigger radiator adds too. The entire frame is thicker guage of steel, its nice. Crash protection bars in the doors, the bumpers and bumper struts constitute at least 100lbs of that weight difference alone. For a race car, the 240z will be superior due to its light weight, For a street car, the 280z will give you a marginally slower car (assuming you left everything intact) but a superior ride quality, you can put more hp through the chassis due to the stronger rear end and thicker, stronger chassis, and assuming the AC still works, you are really rockin! Also the struts are larger on a 280z, spring and shock are bulkier as well, and also have a stiffer rate compared to a 240z to make up for the weight difference, and every mount such as the trans xmember, differential x member, mustache bar, is added cow to the beefier construction of the 280z Wanna see me get even pickier? -The window wipers of the 280z move about twice as fast as a 240z, and the headlight switch has a button which turns them for 4 wipes or so, dont even have to play with the switch. -The turn signals are brighter in the rear and tremendously more noticible and a little bit faster too. -The running lights are brighter -The slighty taller stance of the car lets you run a taller tire -They have more chrome (Ilike chrome) -77-78 use different, better quality connector in the chassis harness that have a way better chance of not being infected with corrosion. - A majorly worn out suspension 280z does hit the nice squat, once a 240z gets a major squat without flaring it, you can bottomout the tires to the chassis, been there, done it, 205/60/14 on a worn out 240z. If you are dropping a nice 300-??? V8 into the car, the only other car that will have a chance in the z series to get you is a 240z equipped with the same or slightly less HP, it is not a common occurance. Same with the turbo swaps, and about any other powertrain. Fuel injection swaps are easier, and its one less thing to worry about, since they come with stock EFI. 280z also rides much better with a worn out stock suspension, I have a turbo swap in mine and I just found out the other day I average 23-26mpg but I drive on the freeway at a minimum of 85mph with a top speed of 125 for sustained periods ( my speedo doesnt work, I had to have a friend of mine pace me to 3500rpm, my cars sweet spot in the cruising range) (I held 125 for an hour straight before I chickened out on the way back from LA, this is white knuckle top speed and at times I wanted to back off, but the savage in me said its TIME TO JAM) To go any faster than I did that one day I would need to refresh the suspension a little more. A 280z rides better than a 240z anytime of the day or night due to a stronger frame. They also have better instrumentation (IMHO) since they have a voltmeter instead of amps, easier to see lettering, big numbers on the tach ( that hooks up easier to modified or swapped ignitions) a little bit better seats. I daily drive my 280z and have over 20,000 miles on my turbo conversion this year, and I have 4 more months on this year to go! I drive it every dang day about 80 miles a day average. Sure, Im probably sacrificing .3 in the 1/4, ill live with it Heres the kicker for me, a 280z with worn out weatherstripping wont smell leak in exhaust fumes like a 240z, Ive never touched mine and I dont even really have weatherstripping at the hatch, and I cant smell anything in the cabin but fresh fresh air. I have owned almost every z there is besides the 350z, an real early or late 260, or a z31, and all my 240z cars would just stink of exhaust fumes, so much I would get out my car and people would tell I stink like gas. None of the information I have just laid down is a generalization, a rumor, or a comment made because I am 280z biased(even though I love them), Its from experience. I have pulled out all the AC, the front bumper assembly (replaced with 240z chrome cherry bumper) and will pull the rear once i get my new garage. If you change the tailights (and why would I) I would have a car that looks exactly like a 240z from the front (I use an airdam for a 240z to use the 240 turn signals) And the car would look like a early 260z from the rear. I suspect when I am done my car would be closer to 2650 or so, since the weight of the 280z is from a fully loaded model, not a stripped down version. The ride quality of the 280z is my favorite part of owning the car. Want a better power to weight ratio, ADD MORE POWER!!!!!! I did take most of the luxury out of my car, not to save weight but I dont use that kinda stuff anyway, all I need is a radio and im happier than a clam. They just ride so dang SMOOTH A clean 240z with some rust, faded paint, and no options like a 280z goes for more than a 280z that is clean and loaded, there are a lot more 280z cars out there in the market as well. ON to the zx series, I would only go for the 81-83 years, they come with even more options, like power steering, ttops( my favorite things in the world), stock turbo ( the best ones to get since they have the cv axle rear end, the infamous T5 transmission that is very strong, and they are easy to hop up with the stock engine), power steering, windows, all wheel disc, digital dash ( people hate them, but I know how to diagnose and repair them so I am a little biased), the talking lady that tells you when your lights are on when you shut off the car, tells you you are low on fuel, and if you drive with the ebrake on(i diagnose and repair these too unless the voice box itself is completely fried), digital guages, an oil temp switch (not just oil pressure, not sure if non turbos ever got them), they can fit some really wide tires if you get the right offsets, you can run 100 watt H4s without relays (I had a zxt with them and they have been running strong with them for 2 years), and every other luxury thing a 280z has, but just way way more options. They can also ridiculously fast on the freeway with a worn out suspension, which the early years cant do due to their bad high speed aerodynamic design. This is because a zx or zxt was modeled after an early Z with the Gnose front spoiler, take a look at an early year car with a Gnose, then look at the zx, its very obvious. A z with a gnose only begins to compete with a zx in terms of high speed aerodynamics. The chassis (especially the turbo years) can take ridiculous amounts of power, weakness to really getting tons of hp would be the halfshafts of the non turbo year cars. The frame wont need anything until you have around 400-500hp and hook with a stick shift. There is a significant weight penalty, but you can very high on the power. People are doing the turbo swap into early year Zs so much you could find a nice shell for peanuts if you look around. One reason I would go 240z, is due to California smog regulations, or the nostalgia factor of having a 240z, the only one I would like to do up would be a 1970z with a low vin. I live in California, home of the smog dyno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MulletMaster Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Wow, thanks for all the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 If you want a race car' date=' a 240z is the best power to weight in the z series, at the major sacrifice of some comfort vs. a 280z or zx (the most comfortable of the round headlight years) A 280z has a much beefier chassis (77-78 in particular, beefier doors), stock bigger rear end ( in five speed models and 2+2), overdrive transmission (some did come with the smaller rear end and a four speed trans, except 78s, always good to check to see what rear it has unless you plan to swap it out anyway), AC(another weight contributing factor if you think of the AC radiator type deal, the pump (AC cars generally have both front and rear sway bars), the lines, and the the part by the heater core that actually blows the air), tons more wiring, thicker subframe and thicker guage metal all the way throughout the chassis, slightly bigger radiator adds too. The entire frame is thicker guage of steel, its nice. Crash protection bars in the doors, the bumpers and bumper struts constitute at least 100lbs of that weight difference alone. For a race car, the 240z will be superior due to its light weight, For a street car, the 280z will give you a marginally slower car (assuming you left everything intact) but a superior ride quality, you can put more hp through the chassis due to the stronger rear end and thicker, stronger chassis, and assuming the AC still works, you are really rockin! Also the struts are larger on a 280z, spring and shock are bulkier as well, and also have a stiffer rate compared to a 240z to make up for the weight difference, and every mount such as the trans xmember, differential x member, mustache bar, is added cow to the beefier construction of the 280z Wanna see me get even pickier? -The window wipers of the 280z move about twice as fast as a 240z, and the headlight switch has a button which turns them for 4 wipes or so, dont even have to play with the switch. -The turn signals are brighter in the rear and tremendously more noticible and a little bit faster too. -The running lights are brighter -The slighty taller stance of the car lets you run a taller tire -They have more chrome (Ilike chrome) -77-78 use different, better quality connector in the chassis harness that have a way better chance of not being infected with corrosion. - A majorly worn out suspension 280z does hit the nice squat, once a 240z gets a major squat without flaring it, you can bottomout the tires to the chassis, been there, done it, 205/60/14 on a worn out 240z. If you are dropping a nice 300-??? V8 into the car, the only other car that will have a chance in the z series to get you is a 240z equipped with the same or slightly less HP, it is not a common occurance. Same with the turbo swaps, and about any other powertrain. Fuel injection swaps are easier, and its one less thing to worry about, since they come with stock EFI. 280z also rides much better with a worn out stock suspension, I have a turbo swap in mine and I just found out the other day I average 23-26mpg but I drive on the freeway at a minimum of 85mph with a top speed of 125 for sustained periods ( my speedo doesnt work, I had to have a friend of mine pace me to 3500rpm, my cars sweet spot in the cruising range) (I held 125 for an hour straight before I chickened out on the way back from LA, this is white knuckle top speed and at times I wanted to back off, but the savage in me said its TIME TO JAM) To go any faster than I did that one day I would need to refresh the suspension a little more. A 280z rides better than a 240z anytime of the day or night due to a stronger frame. They also have better instrumentation (IMHO) since they have a voltmeter instead of amps, easier to see lettering, big numbers on the tach ( that hooks up easier to modified or swapped ignitions) a little bit better seats. I daily drive my 280z and have over 20,000 miles on my turbo conversion this year, and I have 4 more months on this year to go! I drive it every dang day about 80 miles a day average. Sure, Im probably sacrificing .3 in the 1/4, ill live with it Heres the kicker for me, a 280z with worn out weatherstripping wont smell leak in exhaust fumes like a 240z, Ive never touched mine and I dont even really have weatherstripping at the hatch, and I cant smell anything in the cabin but fresh fresh air. I have owned almost every z there is besides the 350z, an real early or late 260, or a z31, and all my 240z cars would just stink of exhaust fumes, so much I would get out my car and people would tell I stink like gas. None of the information I have just laid down is a generalization, a rumor, or a comment made because I am 280z biased(even though I love them), Its from experience. I have pulled out all the AC, the front bumper assembly (replaced with 240z chrome cherry bumper) and will pull the rear once i get my new garage. If you change the tailights (and why would I) I would have a car that looks exactly like a 240z from the front (I use an airdam for a 240z to use the 240 turn signals) And the car would look like a early 260z from the rear. I suspect when I am done my car would be closer to 2650 or so, since the weight of the 280z is from a fully loaded model, not a stripped down version. The ride quality of the 280z is my favorite part of owning the car. Want a better power to weight ratio, ADD MORE POWER!!!!!! I did take most of the luxury out of my car, not to save weight but I dont use that kinda stuff anyway, all I need is a radio and im happier than a clam. They just ride so dang SMOOTH A clean 240z with some rust, faded paint, and no options like a 280z goes for more than a 280z that is clean and loaded, there are a lot more 280z cars out there in the market as well. ON to the zx series, I would only go for the 81-83 years, they come with even more options, like power steering, ttops( my favorite things in the world), stock turbo ( the best ones to get since they have the cv axle rear end, the infamous T5 transmission that is very strong, and they are easy to hop up with the stock engine), power steering, windows, all wheel disc, digital dash ( people hate them, but I know how to diagnose and repair them so I am a little biased), the talking lady that tells you when your lights are on when you shut off the car, tells you you are low on fuel, and if you drive with the ebrake on(i diagnose and repair these too unless the voice box itself is completely fried), digital guages, an oil temp switch (not just oil pressure, not sure if non turbos ever got them), they can fit some really wide tires if you get the right offsets, you can run 100 watt H4s without relays (I had a zxt with them and they have been running strong with them for 2 years), and every other luxury thing a 280z has, but just way way more options. They can also ridiculously fast on the freeway with a worn out suspension, which the early years cant do due to their bad high speed aerodynamic design. This is because a zx or zxt was modeled after an early Z with the Gnose front spoiler, take a look at an early year car with a Gnose, then look at the zx, its very obvious. A z with a gnose only begins to compete with a zx in terms of high speed aerodynamics. The chassis (especially the turbo years) can take ridiculous amounts of power, weakness to really getting tons of hp would be the halfshafts of the non turbo year cars. The frame wont need anything until you have around 400-500hp and hook with a stick shift. There is a significant weight penalty, but you can very high on the power. People are doing the turbo swap into early year Zs so much you could find a nice shell for peanuts if you look around. One reason I would go 240z, is due to California smog regulations, or the nostalgia factor of having a 240z, the only one I would like to do up would be a 1970z with a low vin. I live in California, home of the smog dyno.[/quote'] No Problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 and the headlight switch has a button which turns them for 4 wipes or so' date=' dont even have to play with the switch. [/quote'] So does my 73 240 (turn signal/wiper switch) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Yes, But mine is FASTER!(wipers are faster) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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