Guest bastaad525 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Well so much for hope... I had thought that the Restore stuff was helping to cut down on the smoke... but today it's just as bad as ever. Ah well... snake oil will always be snake oil, I suppose. It's just odd because quite a few people I've talked to now including my own g/f, who put this stuff in her Honda with close to 200,000 miles on it, swear that this stuff works and works well. And the one Z shop I keep shooting ideas back and forth went so far as to take this as an indicator that it is indeed NOT the rings, as he swears if it were the rings this stuff would have definately made a difference in the smoke. All I can do now is wait I guess.... gotta wait for payday and go get a leakdown test, and also I'll drive for a few days and check the inside of the J-Pipe again and see if the oil in there gets any worse, if it does and the leakdown shows nothin than I guess it's the turbo. Is there no reliable way to check if the turbo seal is bad?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 How'd the compression test go? That can be pretty revealing as to the source of the oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Havent done one yet my g/f is going to help me do it tommorow... I gotta get one of those remote cranking switches than I can just do it myself... I'll also take a good look at the plugs again to see if they still have oil on them when I do this. How much oil do you squirt into the cylinders when you recheck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Havent done one yet my g/f is going to help me do it tommorow... I gotta get one of those remote cranking switches than I can just do it myself... I'll also take a good look at the plugs again to see if they still have oil on them when I do this. How much oil do you squirt into the cylinders when you recheck? A tablespoon or so should be good enough, a good squirt from an oil can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 guess I'm kinda baffled how squirting any oil in there helps the compression go up if it's the rings... the pistons are dish tops and the block sits at an angle... wouldnt' oil just pool up in the top of the piston, or if it spilled out, wouldn't in only coat the area of the rings closest to the spark plug? Plus, I have a little plastic syringe I used to use for sucking oil out of my SU's, if I want to use this to squirt oil in there, can anyone guesstimate how many cc's/oz.'s would be a good amount? LOL not to be so picky on this but I dont want to squirt too much in there and not be able to start the car or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Dude, I've got a complete 350/350 in my garage..... J/K..bout 10cc's will be good enough. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Tim... what are you doing today? any chance you want to take a lot at this POS? maybe we could do the compression test at your house? My g/f is a bum when it comes to helping me w/my car... she'll do it but man I really gotta prod here to. I'd like to get your ideas on this... I'm off today. I'll IM you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 and anyways I'd never put a 3 speed auto in my Z no matter how bitchin of an engine it was attached to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afshin Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 You can check the compression by yourself, I have done it many times. Take out all the plugs, check all of them, disconect the coil, screw in the compression gauge and crank about 7-10 turns and then take the reading. You can also very easilly place an alligator clip or any wire on the starter solenoid and connect to + power (on starter or at battery) and the engine will crank with you at the bay and watching the compression gauge. Make sure you check the compression Without the oil first, if low, then check it after squirting the oil in (5-10cc). The compression may read a litlle higher with oil in even a good motor. As you know, the test is too see if you get a big improvement in compression in a engine with low compression. I'll keep my fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 You can check the compression by yourself, I have done it many times. Take out all the plugs, check all of them, disconect the coil, screw in the compression gauge and crank about 7-10 turns and then take the reading. You can also very easilly place an alligator clip or any wire on the starter solenoid and connect to + power (on starter or at battery) and the engine will crank with you at the bay and watching the compression gauge. Make sure you check the compression Without the oil first, if low, then check it after squirting the oil in (5-10cc). The compression may read a litlle higher with oil in even a good motor. As you know, the test is too see if you get a big improvement in compression in a engine with low compression. I'll keep my fingers crossed. If you crank it with the key, make sure to disable the injectors too!!! No need for any fuel to be squirted in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 okay, i didnt read all the posts. But ill share my expirience with the tps. Im am running SDS but the tps reading shouldnt matter. I soldered my wires onto the tps and didnt do a very good job. At anyrate when one would come loose/make a bad connection/ or touch one of the other wires, The car would run like crap. With the tps disconnected the car runs fine. the ecu just get mixed up when the tps is sending wack signals. I would suggect taking the cover off your TPS and checking al the connections -Austin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 I give up... I can't drive this car anymore, and I'm tired of fixing one problem to have three bigger problems pop up. If I were any less manly of a man (that's a joke, btw) I'd be in tears right now, this is just pissing me off that much. Aside from the burning oil, the other big thing that changed after putting the head back on, and this one baffles me just as much as the sudden smoking... horrible amount of exhaust smell in the car, bad enough that my eyes will water, throat will burn, and I'm getting headaches, after about 10 mins of driving. I can't drive this car like this. So I went down to three autozones to see if they had an extension I could just clamp on and see if it helped, but none had one that would fit, either on the outside diameter or the inside.... I took it to the muffler shop today, and for free (amazingly!) they cut off my chrome tip (another $20 thrown away there) and welded a regular aluminized pipe on there, about 2" longer than the original tip, and also pointed down and towards the driver side a bit... big surprise, it didn't help one bit. So that's it, I fuggin give up... I can't drive the car, and I cant' figure out what's wrong with it, I give up. So it's going up on the auction block. Check the buy/sell/trade section if you're interested. Shoulda left the gawdamn 'slow' N/A motor in her.... now I'm out $10+ grand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 COME ON 525! Don't give in man. It's only a car. Step away from it, take a break and get back in there and kick its ASS. I know you've been having a rough time with it but you've invested a lot of time an effort and should enjoy the outcome. You will get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Oh yeah, one more thing...my cousins '83 ZXT that he just bought that we got running great, the one i was using to diagnose my Z problems, well, 2 days ago the thing just started smoking and i mean smoking. It does it on decelleration and if you bring the r's up to like 3k rpm and hold it for a little bit, then let off...as soon as she idles for a few seconds it smokes like a mutha until it seems to burn off. Also, if you pull the valve cap off, it'll run real rough (because causing major vac leak) but, she starts smokig instantly...and billowing smoke. So, maybe this is sort of the same problem your having and i'll be working on his car shortly and will come up with the solution. I'm thinking valve seals without really digging into it but we'll see. Hey, they're only about $24 for the set of 12 and not hard at all to do. You may have mentioned that you put all new seals in when you had the head done and if i missed it, sorry. But maybe just maybe he and you are having the same problem and if i figure it out, you'll have it figured out. Just hate to see you throw the towel in man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 yeah we did replace the seals I can't keep fighting with this car dude, it's more about the money than the time or effort. You know as much as anyone how much I wanted this car man it was like all I thought about 24/7 for weeks, but I promised myself and my g/f, whom lives with me and we pay everything 50/50, that I would only spend so much on this car, and I've already exceeded that limit by close to $2,000. Now this smoking can really only be either bad valve guides, which would need another rebuild of the head (couple hundred) or bad rings, which would need a rebuild of the block (near a grand) or bad turbo, which means rebuild that (like $500). And I have exactly zero hundred in the bank. I'm tired of being a slave to this car, devoting paycheck after paycheck to it. As I stated in another post, with the amount of money I'm paying on this thing every week I could be driving a new 350z. Almost $10,000 this year. It's stressin me out... it's hard for me to take a step back or take a break when I have to drive that thing every day, or try to! I only have one car, and I need it to get me to work, reliably, without getting me high from fumes or having to spend x amount of hours under the hood every day. I mean at least if I had all the tools I need and a good place to work on it.... as it stands if my managers even think I'm working on my car in the apartment parking lot I'll hear about it for sure... who knows how many times I can get away with it before I get kicked out for it. I can only say this... if no one can offer me close to enough to at least get another decent car, something I can depend on, then I guess I'm gonna be stuck with it. The ads already posted in the buy/sell/trade anyways, and as it stands right now I'd prefer if I never drove that car again, and if I do it will probably only be to give a test drive to a prospective buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 525 - can you do me one favor if you get a chance - With the car at idle, take the valve cover cap off and let it idle for another minute or two. Does it start smoking? I am going to figure this out 7 thousand miles away and before you sell it! BTW - decent cars cost about 40k so, if nobody offers you close to that for your Z, i guess you going to have to keep it j/k. I just want you to enjoy it, that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Ok, one more thing...is there ANY way you're getting major crankcase pressure? I know you said you have the hose that comes out of your block, the one that used to go to the PVC which was screwed to the intake, vented to atmosphere. Is it AT ALL possible this is plugged with something? Maybe major pressure is buiding up in there causing blow-by, in turn causing major smokage? ok, i need sleep 2:30am here on the east coast. I will continue to work on this in my head, unless you've completely given up. LMK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I havent tried running for very long with the oil cap off. If I take the cap off it creates a vacuum leak and the car wants to die... if it doesn't make a difference, I can hold the throttle open a bit more with the oil cap off and see if it starts smoking. I dont think there's any pressure building up in the block. I'm 99% sure the breather that comes out of the block is not clogged, as before we did the head and manifold swap, when the PCV setup was all in place, I did the couple little tests you do to see if the whole system is functioning and not clogged, and it was working fine. BUT, the breather on the block isn't open anymore, I plugged it, and then I rerouted the hose from the valve cover breather back into the intake at the stock spot, on the rubber boot between the turbo and AFM. I did this because when I ran both breathers open to atmosphere the smell in the car was unbearable even with the windows rolled up. I did post a thread asking if routing it like this would cause any problems and the opinion was that it wouldn't. There's no place for air to get sucked in and cause a vacuum leak with the block breather and oil dipstick sealed up tight, and pressure cant build up inside the block because the intake is constantly putting vacuum on the hose that goes to the valve cover, so any blowby or whatever would just get sucked into the intake. At any rate, when both breathers were open to atmosphere it did not seem to have an effect on the smoking one way or the other, as opposed to the way I have it now. If you're theory were right though, about pressure building up in the block, I would think running it with the oil cap off would cause the smoke to clear up completely, as any pressure buildup would just escape thru there. At any rate, I"ll give it a try I had completely given up but when I posted the car in the buy/sell/trade boards I got a ton of responses telling me what a mistake it'd be so I took it back out... Tim240z is offering to help me out to pull the head back off, I guess that's the next thing we can do... I did have a friend offer me a block he guarantees has no more than 100k miles on it and is in very good shape for $200 if it ends up it is the block... Also Tim offered to loan me a turbo to see if maybe it is my turbo seal. Whatever it ends up being, if I can somehow arrange to do the labor myself (i'd need a place to do it, can't do it at my apt. and I'd need some of the more specialized or heavy duty tools) or with a helping hand or even just a guiding eye, then I can afford to keep trying to make this car right. If I gotta keep paying someone else for labor than I'm assed out for now and for a very long time because I just cant afford it, and would need to get another car one way or another ASAP, if I can do that w/o selling the Z I will try as much as I can to do so. So I'm still tryin... trust me I dont want to give up or get rid of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 ok, so let me see if i have this all right with your current setup.... 1 - you have the hose that comes from the top of the valve cover connected to the boot between the AFM and turbo, the way it was stock, correct? 2 - you have the crankcase vent hose that use to run to the PVC blocked off, right? 3 - the threaded hole that the PVC screwed into on the bottom of the intake welded shut? I'm not understanding this - "pressure cant build up inside the block because the intake is constantly putting vacuum on the hose that goes to the valve cover" How is the intake constantly putting vacuum on that hose? Isn't it connected to the boot between the AFM and T3? You need to think in both directions...vacuum AND boost pressure. Idle/low load=intake vacuum. High load/boost=intake positive pressure. Also remember that there are passages from the head to the crankcase that allow the oil to drain back to the block. High crankcase pressure might not allow the oil to drain or work in the opposite direction and it needs to go somewhere. Just some thoughts that've crossing my mind. May help, may not, but trying. Do you have any oil buildup where the dipstick seal is? I know you'll get busted for working on the car, just trying to give you quick, simple checks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 correction... there isn't really vacuum present in the hose, just suction. You are correct on how I have it set up now. There should never be boost present in that hose, as it's before the turbo, air is only ever being pulled thru. There might be a slight, brief increase in pressure when the BOV vents, but it should follow the path of least resistance, which I would think it would just go right back into the turbo since the engine is trying to pull it back in... if any pressure flows back the other way into the valve cover I would be very surprised, and at any rate the hose in it the exact same place it would be if I'd left the PCV system stock and intact, so I dont think it'd cause a problem. Tim240z took at look at the car a couple days ago and didn't see any problems with the setup. I also did worry that boost might find it's way back into the valve cover somehow but the couple people who I've put the question think it shouldn't be an issue. I do see you're point though and one of the next things I'm going to do is open the crank breather back up and just route a hose from it to somewhere back in the intake, I may just let it 'dump' right in front of the air filter... anything to keep the smell out of the cabin. I'll also probably reroute the hose from the valve cover to dump somewhere before the afm too, just to be 100% certain that it's not letting boost or unmetered air in. Again though, I dont think it will make a difference, the car runs no differently nor did it smoke any less when I had it running with both breathers just open to atmosphere. There was no abnormal oil buildup on the oil dipstick seal that I could tell. Thank you for all the suggestions... did you figure out what was wrong with the '83? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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