Guest yatsen Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Anyone familiar with these? I'm surprised by their relatively low weight: http://www.falconerengines.com/prod04.htm#Click%20below%20for%20specs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nic-Rebel450CA Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 I saw one of those in a little T-Bucket before. It was awesome. However, I hope you arent considering this for your Z... "560 FT.LB. TORQUE AT 1500 RPM" All that torque off idle would bust about anything that it connects with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aaron Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 I read a little about this engine about 10 years ago. They keep the costs down by using a lot of SBC parts. I think the only things uniqe to the engine are the block, crank, cam, heads, manifolds, oil pan, and valve covers. I think the use 350 chevy rods, pistons, rings, bearings, lifters, pushrods, rockers, valves, etc. I have always wanted to see one in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 Be prepared to spend a LOT if you consider a Falconer engine - they really are wonderful however last time we priced one he had a rebuilt one a customer had traded in - and the price was well into 5 figures. If anyone is seriously considering this I can get you the specifics as well as a couple pics. They are nice people there but even the used one was several times what a decent Ferrari V-12 would cost used Chelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yatsen Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 The reason for starting this thread was for putting evil thoughts in people's minds ... I find it interesting that they use Chevy parts to keep costs down to several(!!??) times the price of a Ferrari V12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 One emphasis on these engines (and this is only an opinion) was for the experimental aircraft market, and in particular 3/4 scale WWII fighter aircraft replica kits that use the V12 (e.g. P-51 and the Spitfire to name a couple). This is the reason for the large and low rpm torque curve to allow max torque and keep tip speed on the large props down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yatsen Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 You're probably right on the money. From what I've read on their site so far most of the emphasis seems to be on aviation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 I like it! Push rod motor would give a nice low center of gravity. The pan is the same sandwich design as the Jag so it would fit between the hood and cross member with the horizontal intake. Bell housings are a dime a dozen. Chev parts so you could break it occasionally when you get over zealous at times. Great idea!...how much? It might just be cheaper than the V10 Viper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yatsen Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 It might just be cheaper than the V10 Viper. Well ... but even the used one was several times what a decent Ferrari V-12 would cost usedChelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I just dug through my desk and found the specs. & pricing info on the Falconer V12. The street version is 600 CID, 522 lbs, 23.5" wide, 19.5" high (measured from the crankshaft centerline), and 36.5" long from back to front accessory drive pully). On 92 octane it's 620 HP @ 5000 rpm and 750 ft. lbs. torque @ 4500rpm It includes ECU, wet sump oil system, tuned port injection, and direct fire ignition. Turbocharging or supercharging is optional and the price for normally aspirated as above? It starts at $65,000. When I spoke with them last they had a used one they removed from a customer's suburban. They rebuilt is and used a new set of heads. It was available at a savings of $17,000 over a new engine, they were asking just $48,000. It's a great engine - but over the years we have bought a few running ferrari v-12's, granted they were used, for anywhere from $12,000 for a tired 1970 engine to $18,000 for a pretty fresh one with 6 carbs. What I've been watching for of late is a totaled Ferrari 550, 575, or 456 with non F1 6-speed to put in - the BWM V12 project just isn't worth spending all the time needed to make it work. Chelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FinalRights Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 What is that blue car? I'm guessing those are Z's with replica kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 The blue car is a 1974 Lamborghini Urraco. It's original, kim and I rescued it from being a parts car a year and a half ago.. look here for more pics of it. http://members.core.com/~sysadmin/personal/Urraco/lambo.html Chelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Oops , forgot to add - the red and white are both Alpha GTO replicas... Chelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 “I bought a BMW V-12 and 6 speed for one of out z based cars - the biggest issue we haven't totally decided how to overcome is the front oil sump on this engine- it interferes with (well is totally in the way of) the crossmember.†Hi 'Chelle: I am not at all familiar with the BMW V12, however there must be some way to swap the pan around. There should be a local race shop in your area that could do this for you. I think it would be a shame not to spend the time on it. It sounds like an exellent idea for the car you have. Cheers...:::Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Well the problem as we see it is the pan is just a small section of the front of the bottom of the engine. It's like a foot square at the front of the bottom of the engine. See this pic of one someone was putting in a Lambo replica and you'll see that the crossmember needs to be in front of or behind the oil pan - there's really no way to move the sump like on most engines. I just can't see machining away a big chunk of the block lol.. http://www.lambolounge.com/Chassis/Engine/BMW-V12/Ron/image009.jpg We considered a dry sump system, but the cost is prohibitive. and in order to clear the hood on the GTO replica it still will have to sit so low that the crossmember will be in the way. So the two choices are a custom crossmember or a whole tube front end. Either is going to need a modified steering setup that places the rack behind the axle centerline (or far ahead of it to clear. I'm open to suggestions : ) BTW - great job on yours - that's a heck of an exhaust on yours Chelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Hi ‘Chelle: If the bottom of the block is flat, I would be temped to fabricate a new sandwich plate from 3/4†aluminium plate and build a new pan to fasten to it. I would modify the existing one or substitute something from an automatic transmission at the rear of the engine. The pickup for the oil could be routed from the back via a steel tube along the inside of the block below the windage tray. The Jag is similar in design but the sump is in the rear already. However I know I could change things around if I had to. It might be worth your while, if you have the engine, to buy a gasket and check out what’s in there. After all what is an oil pan but a vessel that holds oil, no moving parts and not a lot of need for close tolerances. It’s not all that complicated. I don’t have your engine measurements but the engine does not "appear" to be any taller than the Jag. The problem here was interference at the intakes. The BMW intakes appear to sit farther back eliminating any problem. But I’m just speculating. Bottom line is I believe this is still a viable swap with out the need for extensive front end modification. Cheers…:::Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Thanx Glenn, Good thoughts there. Actually I'll have to do that this week - I hadn't thought of just buying a gasket to see if I could reverse the upper part of the pan. I do have the engine here. I'll have to get someone to fabricate a oil pickup, but it would be worth trying. If it can't reverse( which I'm pretty sure it can't) I will look into the possability of getting a new pan fabricated, though I'm not ooptimistic on that. Also the 6 speed is huge so I thought about having an adapter made to put a T56 on it. It would be nice if the input shaft on the BMW trans was longer than the one on a T56, then a simple plate could be fitted to adoat it I haven't measured, but honestly the engine has just been sitting since I initially felt the pan eliminated any chance I would fight to get it in there. see it here: http://www.geocities.com/michellel_29/engine12.jpeg As for height it's 29" tall from the top of the air plenums to the bottom of the (current) oil pan. I'll post updates as this thing evolves! : ) Chelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Just a thought Chelle: I assumed you asked the BMW parts desk if there is a rear sump pan available for a different model. Which BMW did you get the V12 from? …:::Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 It came from an 850csi. The V12 from BMW is/was only sold in the 750i and 850 series. And they all have the front sump. The McLaren supercar used a BMW block with special 4 valve heads, but I can't find a pic to see the bottom of the engine - which is just as well really, I'm not likely to find a McLaren being parted out on ebay lol Here's a pic of the McLaren engine.. Actually the new 760 series has the new 4 valve heads, but again - I'm unlikely to find any for sale this soon.. And btw - my experience is the BMW parts and service guys are useless when doing something like this - if they can't look the part up by the VIN of the BMW, they don't seem to know how to look anything up. Most of my info has come from a few persistant beemer racers : ) Chelle[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Hi Chelle: I know what you mean about the parts guys…it’s the same at Jag. Mahogany counter with a brass doorbell. I get more info in the side door talking to the mechanics before some guy dressed in tweed asks me if he can help me…out. Thanks for the education on BMW. I know they make fine engines and you won’t be disappointed once it’s up and running. Keep us posted. I think Gordon Murray would have specified a dry sump for the F1 to obtain a lower CG. Cheers…:::Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.