Guest bastaad525 Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Recently we were discussing if the Apexi S-AFC was compatible with early ZXT EFI, but now I would like to know if anyone knows if the HKS unit will work with my car? It turns out the Apexi could be made to work, one guy got it running... but damn, I'm reading up on what the HKS does... it seems more intelligent, more flexible... more USEFUL than the Apex, and it's like half the price! It looks like it might be simpler to wire too. The only downside is it's not as flashy as the Apex... SO WHAT! Please someone tell me they have this unit running on a 280zx or zxt efi? I can pick up one of these units for around $100... if it works and does what is says it'd be WELL worth it. It modifies the signal from the AFM in a similiar way as the Apex... it's a piggyback computer, but gives you a HUGE range of control over your fuel curve... seems like it'd be perfect for a turbo car. The thing is even set up to compensate for BOV's venting to atmosphere!! Man this thing sounds AWESOME please please say they can be made to work.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 It works on Z31 ECU But I think the only difference in AFM and MAF is the signal goes 5v-0v rather than 0v-5v. So it should work. I did have to usetach signal converter from HKS to make the thing work right under boost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 I read the instructions for the thing, downloaded them at HKS website. It does have a dipswitch in the back that can set from 0-5v or 5-0v. And theres that issue of the tach signal again... it wouldn't have been an issue actually, but now it is because my MSD 6A took a crap on me last week. I'll look and see how much the HKS signal converter is... I still have my MSD tach adapter... but I cant think of any way this would be useful, especially with the ignition unit itself. Man I just can't believe the stuff this thing does for being so cheap, and I read the instructions man the thing looks easy as hell to install. I WANT ONE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 yeah, installing HKS is a breeze after figuring out the tach signal. I don't think there is a digital signal coming from MSD box. I thought it was 0v-12v analog but who knows. I've seen one work on Supraa and an AFM setup but that doesn't mean anything. I guess try it and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Dont suppose you'd want to sell yours? ah well it's a few weeks away at least anyways before I have any $$$... probably not until the new year, as I really want to get my I/C in first. I am still just in awe of how cheap this thing goes for considering what they can do (at least, what HKS SAYS they can do!). I found the RPM signal converters for $50... so around $150 for everything... and I get a tune-able fuel curve to play with at the dyno... SWEET! Man I wish I'd found this unit sooner... and glad I found it before buying the much more expensive Apex S-AFC. I can't wait to get this puppy, installed along with my I/C, bump the boost to 13-14psi and start melting tires These few things and a better fuel pump should be enough to get me to 250hp at the wheels yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Hey 525 - Wanna let me in on your secret on where to pick one up for $100?? I am using the MSD box but i'd have to find out what the tach signal output actually is. I seem to remember it being like a 12v square wave output which, judging be what Yo said, wouldn't work because the HKS needs digital. Yo, does it perform? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Jersey - ebay... I saw current bids ranging from $80 up to "But It Now" prices of $200 or so. I dont think you can use the MSD signal for this one but I'm not sure. If not, the RPM signal converter is only another $50, and that's direct from HKS, I'm sure you can find it cheaper. For instance HKS directly sells the S-AFR for $289, and before looking on ebay I found some Subaru websites selling it for like $225... funny I always thought "direct from the manufacturer" would mean cheaper *shrug*. I'm going to try to get one of the AFR units off ebay for no more than $150 and get the signal converter, that will put me exactly at what I had budgeted for an RRFPR, only this will be like 10x better Here's a link to the HKS webpage with all the info on this unit: http://www.hksusa.com/products/more.asp?id=811 If it does what it says it does it's one awesome little unit man.... also if you read the instructions available on the website you can see the thing is extremely easy to install, about the same level of work as installing an MSD ignition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 It's not as user friendly as AFC is but it does more for sure. May be I'll hoo mine back and dyno again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Before you shell out your hard earned $$, I was looking for an HK$ FCON, and heard they have older versions to steer clear of. Reason being the MAP sensor is often not included, and the older version of the MAP sensor is NLA. So an older PFC FCON without a MAP sensor may be USELESS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean73 Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 bastaad525 I don't think you'll benefit much from the S-AFR with your current setup, even if you can get it to work with the 83 ECCS. Reason being, is your boost level is limited by 1) lack of intercooler. 2) stock injectors. The S-AFR will not do anything special but give you some tunability within the limits of the stock ECU and injectors. To fully benefit from the S-AFR, you'll need lots of dyno tuning, which will cost more than the S-AFR itself. If I were you, I would go about things in this order: 1) install intercooler (and a/f gauge if you don't already have one). 2) turn up the boost and try not to lean out. 3) dump the 2.5" press bent exhaust for 3" mandrel system. 3) drive for a while, work out the bugs, then get a dyno. 4) Your dyno and a/f graph will tell you where you are, and where you can go. You may need to fix stock EFI items before pushing power any further. Remember, your injector-imposed HP limit is ~270 HP (crank). The S-AFR will not add anything to this, because at ~270 crank HP, your injectors are at 100% duty cycle. In order to make it to this level without detonating (on pump gas), you need an intercooler. 5 - 6) If you're leaning out at the top end, an adjustable FPR would help. Let's say you set the static FP at 44 psi. Then you might run a little rich on the low-end -- which is something correctable by the S-AFR 7) Later on, you may want to get a big turbo and big injectors. That's also something the S-AFR could help you accomodate. Don't get me wrong, the S-AFR looks like a nice unit (I have one, yet to be installed). I bought it on a whim on Ebay for $150 (new), thinking that eventually I'll be running big injectors. Sean 73 240Z. 5 spd, L28ET, T3/T04E, NPR IC, 84 ECCS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Dont get me wrong I know it's not going to increase the limit of power I can get from my stock stuff, I have mentioned more than a few times that I know my injectors are limiting me to that 250hp mark, and that's fine because that's just about as much power as I want, to be honest, but I think I can use this tune it for better driveability in general, and with it I can make sure that I AM squeezing every possible ounce of power out of my stock stuff, whereas I really dont feel confident that the stock EFI on it's own is doing that. I also think I can use this unit to get better driveability off boost, read that webpage about the unit... it seems very adaptable and smart and seems like it would bring the capabilities of my 20 year old EFI system more 'up to spec' with what current systems do to make a better driving car (read: smoother running and better gas mileage). I have already bought my intercooler and am not doing anything else until I get it installed. I think at that point, with the I/C and higher boost (13-14psi), that I could definately benefit from a way of adjusting the fuel curve. I do like your idea of using this unit in conjuction with an FPR set to a higher pressure level, and actually was already thinking of something like that. Actually, after I installed the HKS I was thinking of doing an old 'budget' trick I read about, about crushing down the top of the stock FPR slightly while watching the fuel pressure with a pressure gauge, to increase the spring rate on it and therefore raise the pressure that way... if you think about it this is exactly what an adjustable FPR lets you change, but to do it this way is gonna be a one way trip but as you said, while this will cause it to run more rich across the board, I can easily use the HKS to compensate for that and still get the extra fuel I need on top safely and reliably. Mickey Mouse, I know, but it WILL work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 I'm all for tunabitily and dyno. It's not worth taking wild guesses. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 yeah well I figure when you are 'making' a car like this and making it do things it wasn't intended to do, dyno time isn't an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 yeah well I figure when you are 'making' a car like this and making it do things it wasn't intended to do, dyno time isn't an option. i think the opposite, when you are doing things the car wasnt originally desinged for, dyno time will tell how well it does or doesnt like it. just installed hks s-afr, it works well so far, right now im just learning idle and next set will try to lean it out in the 4k range, im not going to try anything else until i set up egt and afr guage-yes, it came with the box. ill dyno soon, its the only way ill even put my foot in the boost. too slow, I am the first with this!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 well dyno time isn't an option unless you a) like to live dangerously and risk your engine or have some way to accurately tune at home such as EGT and WB sensors. I guess this applies more to turbo cars anyways, as far as it really being a necessity for safety. fl327 - what year EFI are you running the HKS with? Please post updates every so often about it and your learning experiences with it or any problems or whatever. The more info I can get going in, the better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jjohart Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Hi..while I read all the posts on the HKS, and indeed my installer, Avalon Racing, is recommending using it with a Greddy Profec2 on my I/C'd (soon) 83 280ZXT, I am unable to find a single unit when I look on Ebay, and I've been trying to for some time! Does anyone have the exact model name for it...all I find under HKS is some strange computer that says "vein pressure"..sounds like a medical device, or some other small computer with a bunch of dials! What is this accessory HKS that goes with the HKS AFC>as mentioned in some of the posts? I have no idea what that piggyback thingy is for, but I'm losing my graces trying to figure this out!@OI#R%&(*& John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 On ebay I searched for HKS S-AFR The accesory thing is the RPM signal converter, but I wasn't able to find any of those on ebay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jjohart Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 Hi, I can't find real sellers or real product on Ebay which show the HKS all you folks are discussing! When I try entering it as a HKS AFC, all I get is Apexi, and if I do a general air fuel computer search, I find only an HKS "vein pressure" unit...sounds like a medical device! HELP!! John[/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 it's not a AFC but AFR. http://search.ebay.com/ws/search/SaleSearch?sokeywordredirect=1&ht=1&sosortproperty=1&satitle=hks&from=R8&sacategory=33594&catref=C1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 afr is stupid easy to wire up i think. I got the whole deal locally through a local guy posting on mkiv.com, traded him some turbo stuff and cash and got a super afr, autometer egt and a/f (both used but in good shape) I wired the sucker up in forty five minutes eating lunch!!!!!!! not bad at all to hook up, i didnt get the feeling like if i did something wrong my car would blow up or anything. And so far so good, idle rich and lean works well. thats all ive tried so far. im running stock cc injector so nothing crazy i guess. ive tuned idle a bit and it was ok. weather too unpredictable to try anything else soon. spent 155 plus parts so about 300 total and got a new afr out of it, its pretty cool and its remarkably user friendly for jspec. and you can find some on craigslist every now and again. efi setup is 81 harness with 83 ecu, distributor, afm. should be the same for all of them, wiring wise. havent tried boost on it yet because i cant. car is deadly in the rain, anything more than 1/2 throttle will pin tach to 6500 or so in a blink, so she stays in the garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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