blueovalz Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Here is a view from on top of the uprights (as I would use them with the OEM uprights). The turnbuckle would use one left-hand and one right-hand bolt. The bolt's heads would be welded to the angle brackets that would then be bolted to the servered transverse link halves. In this case, being the amount of adjustment needed is very small, I'd cut the turnbuckle in half, section it and then weld the two shorter ends back together. A turnbuckle any longer than 3" would seem unnecessary. This way the 2 bolts holding one of the two halves of the transverse link could be loosened, the turnbuckle adjusted, and then the bolts would be re-tightened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 17, 2003 Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 Terry, I'm loving your graphics! Thanks! My other thought was 1" hex aluminum drilled and tapped for 5/8" LH and RH, then use the bolts and angle iron like you depicted. I'm going to put lock nuts on either end of the turnbuckle too, probably not necessary but what the heck. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Locknuts or some type of jamnut will be necessary. Where does one get wrong threaded nuts, bolts, taps and dies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 17, 2003 Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 http://www.colemanracing.com I'm sure there are MANY other places, but I've always been treated well when dealing with these guys... great catalog too. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 I can get the bolts locally and I think I've purchased the taps as well around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Jon, here is what I've tacked up so far. The left side is left-hand threads and the right side is right-hand threads. I'm using 1/2" bolts and nuts with the inside nuts tacked onto a piece of 2.5" long tubing to act as a turnbuckle. The angle brackets hold the turnbuckle onto the transverse link. Further work will entail separating or cutting the transverse link in half somewhere in the middle section and then welding some sheet steel onto one half only, so that this new sheet will overlap the other half of the transverse link so that both halves will be able to slide against one another, to and fro, while adjustments are made. Then I will drill an elongated hole (or several depending on the situation) through the welded sheet and opposite half tranverse link so that a bolt (or bolts) can go through both halves and be tightend, for added rigidity and strength. Total cost so far has been about $20. The left-hand bolts are pricy in that a 1/4" bolt is about $4 and then up to over $6 for a 1/2" bolt (all are 2" long). The nuts are fairly cheap though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 19, 2003 Author Share Posted December 19, 2003 That's pretty cool Terry. Since you have your bad@ss aluminum upright and diff mount does that allow you to run a straight transverse link? 95% of Z's out there wouldn't be able to use the straight link, because the diff cover won't fit...right? Isn't that '70 and early '71 only? I was thinking while I'm doing all of this I'm gonna make my center section fit the LSD cover I've got lying around. I always wanted to use it and this looks like a good excuse. So I'm thinking square tube like this http://www.hybridz.org/phpBB2/album_pic.php?pic_id=647 and weld 5/8" RH and LH bolts into the end of the square tube, then use a turnbuckle and jam nuts in the middle. If you do it my way then you don't really need to worry about the slots and all of that, and I'd venture a guess to say it'd be plenty strong, especially since the bushing caps are locked down on the uprights. I've also seriously considered redoing the uprights to something like you've got while I'm at it. Maybe not incorporating the mustache bar, but the uprights in a 3/8" plate aluminum with a section cut out for the diff to stick through. Not sure yet, still mulling it all over. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 I ordered some parts from Coleman. I need to track down my old R180 cross bar to use as a victim (it's buried someplace in my messy garage I'm sure). I'm going to start by making a bump out so that the new bar will fit around an LSD cover - in case I ever do manage to affford an LSD. Of course, if I could afford an LSD, I could probably afford some of those nice arms that Mac is selling..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Since you have your bad@ss aluminum upright and diff mount does that allow you to run a straight transverse link? I could use either type. The 1/4" plate that I use is straight, so it made sense to use a straight link, but the curved would work as well. Even though the plate is flat, with it up against the cover, I still do not require a curved link. This makes me think that a straight link would work even with the later set-ups because my differential is positioned no differently than the normal late version position (pushed reward 1"). The Control arm bushings are again, in the same, OEM position, as is the link between them. I feel, without the benefit of having a curved link to look at on a car, that this curved link was designed to allow access to fill or drain the differential fluid, or something, because I see no requirement for a curved link if the only reason is to clear the cover. Otherwise, this flat plate and straight link on my car would not work. If you do it my way then you don't really need to worry about the slots and all of that I don't understand then, how will you move the bushings left and right without slotting the bushing retainer's mounting holes? The uprights are fully rigid, so the only way to gain any adjustment is to slide the bushing retainers left or right across the face of the upright. Is this not correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 20, 2003 Author Share Posted December 20, 2003 I don't understand then, how will you move the bushings left and right without slotting the bushing retainer's mounting holes? The uprights are fully rigid, so the only way to gain any adjustment is to slide the bushing retainers left or right across the face of the upright. Sorry, that was badly worded. I am talking about your idea of slotting the center of the link and having 2 overlapping pieces. If you make the turnbuckle big enough (like the 5/8" stuff I'm thinking of using) then you don't need to slot and overlap the center of the link. Just leave it out and let the turnbuckle carry whatever load is there, which again should be minimal because the outer ends are locked into the slots on the uprights. That's what your last diagram had shown, and I just took that idea and ran with it. I was still planning on slotting the uprights, but eliminating the center part of the original link. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 I see. The set-up you describe then simply integrates the new link, and the adjuster, into "one". I want add that I thought your idea of somehow bracing the two uprights as one with some kind of sheet bracing between the two has a lot of merit as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 20, 2003 Author Share Posted December 20, 2003 Well thanks, but that was Jeromio's idea. He deserves a lot of credit for this one. We'll have to call it the "Jeromio link" or something. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Well, that's the great thing about these internet boards - and this one especially: I can't reallly take credit for the idea either. I searched and found the post that inspired the idea: http://hybridz.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26070&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15 So really it was just an extension of Rick Johnson's idea of slotting the holes in the uprights. I do like Terry's idea of having a way to bolt the cross bar back together. I do agree with Jon that it's not necessarily needed for strength, but it would certainly make things go more smoothly in a tech inspection. My graduation present for myself is gonna be HPDE at VIR the last weekend in August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 A drawing of what I will do with my link showing OEM uprights, and a combined version and with my aluminum plate upright as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 Well, everything is tacked up on the final configuration. As it sits, this piece allows a total of 5/16" of simultaneous adjustment at both ends. This allows about +/- .9 degrees (or a little over 3/8") toe adjustment at the tire (if my rusty trig is correct). Tiime to clean it up, paint it, slot the holes on the upright, and install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 27, 2003 Author Share Posted December 27, 2003 I am now starting to wonder about either your trig, Terry, or the alignment machine I used to work on, or my memory of it. I used this machine just about every day for more than a year, and I would swear that on a 25" tall tire, degrees and inches were basically the same. .5* was .5 inches. So I used to set my toe to about .20* total, which I had assumed was roughly 3/16". We did everything in degrees at that shop, so I only saw the conversion when I hit a button to manually switch from degrees to inches, which I only did once or twice. I'm beginning to question how much rear toe I actually have in the car, since you are stating that 3/8" = .9*. It's been 5 years and a head injury since I was doing alignments professionally, so I'm wondering if I might be remembering my own alignment specs wrong... Also, your link looks like it's going to work out nicely. Good job. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 Well, I could be wrong. I took 25"/.375", and then hit INV tan to get my figure. I then cross-checked with .375"/25" (25" is not exact as a hypot in this instance) and then used the INV sin and got the same number. It's been over 25 years since school, and I had to remember the old opposite over hypo, adj over hypo, opp over adj thing, so I may be off here. I found that there is roughly a 3:4 ratio on the bushing offset to tire toe measurement adjustment. In other words a 3/16" sideward adjustment at the bushing will provide a 4/16" toe adjustment at the tire (based on a 25" tire) I'll get this thing on the car this next week and give it one last shot with the camera for a final post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 29, 2003 Author Share Posted December 29, 2003 Well I think this answers my question about angle and inch conversions: http://www.drivewerks.com/tech/home_alignment.htm Looks like I remembered correctly. They used a 24" tire in their example, I am running a 25" tall tire. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay23 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Is it possible to have some of these picture you just posted in this topic, they are not avaible anymore,i know it's been a damnt while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 This thread has more current photos of my arms and toe adjuster: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/62776-yet-another-rear-control-arm-design/page-8?do=findComment&comment=1026517 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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