proxlamus© Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 no.. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoeightythreez Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Proxlamas, Thanks for the info. I will definitely check into that, even though i'm not getting oil on the intake side of the turbo. My intake/pcv setup is like this: Stock '78 N42 intake and PCV valve (I cleaned it and it was free when I was putting the parts on the turbo block), the only mod I did was to relocate the PCV valve since it was interfering with the turbo (I removed one of the screw in core plugs in the bottom, and drilled/tapped it to the PCV's thread, then screwed the whole shebang back in, shortened the PCV hose and it looks great) On top I cut the nipple off the throttle body and installed a 2nd PCV valve(it screws in, it will cut it's own threads into the aluminum TB) and put the hose back on from the valve cover to the TB. It should get vacuum there as it's just aft of the throttle blade. Maybe it's too MUCH vacuum and it's sucking oil out of the valvetrain area? Oddly enough, though it seems to work, I also can pull the hose off while the car is running and not get any vacuum there...except when I rev it and quickly close the throttle, but at idle, no vacuum, even though the engine itself pulls about 19-20in/hg at idle.(but it still blocks boost too) It's just that hose, too, if I pull the BOV hose off which is right next to that nipple the engine speeds up by about 1000rpm It's really making me scratch my head. I'll check tomorrow (stuck on the ship today, till tomorrow for duty) to see if the actual passage for the nipple is fwd of the TB as that's the only way it won't get vacuum at idle there, right? If I disconnect the hose from the valve cover I can blow INTO it but can't SUCK any air out (so my added pcv seems to be working...as it apparently is letting air INTO the intake but not letting BOOST out...this is how I wanted it so I could keep PCV and not pressurize the engine) Maybe I am just nuking it or something? should i just get a breather? (I really don't want to, because it'll make my car smell like a pre-wwII car.) Thanks again for the information, I will look it over tomorrow after work. (I have to fix an oil leak at the timing chain inspection cover...whew..thought the oil pump was still leaking...but it turns out to be this little cover! It has covered the entire right front of the motor with oil so far and I've only driven the car about 300 miles since I converted to turbo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoeightythreez Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Mike says: LOL... Guys, did you guys notice that the last post was January 2004? Hey, you guys should be happy, someone actually used the search function before asking a question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Right on!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoeightythreez Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Ok, i checked while the motor was running, pulled the breather hose off the motor, and Pfssst....it was pressurized. So, I checked my 2nd pcv valve again ,and it allows air in the intake, though the passage is in front of the throttle blade, so I'm guessing pressure still builds up (though air can't flow INTO the motor that way.) So, I went to PepBoys and bought a breather, and drove for about an hour to allow the oil a chance to burn off, and it all seemed OK. I let it sit for 1/2 hour and started it up, and it was smoking again. My question is, shouldn't there be a vacuum at the nipple on the valve cover? My car has air coming OUT there, does this suggest a clogged lower PCV valve or is this normal? (I cleaned and inspected the PCV before I installed the motor, it was working fine) I'm thinking of getting a custom air filter tube in front of the turbo made so I can put a hose on it to the valve cover, possibly this will help? (the factory TB location has no vacuum on it, ever, and the engine pulls about 18in/hg at idle) I don't think it's my guides, because if I let off in gear it pulls about 25-27in/hg and it doesn't smoke then. It only smokes at idle after warmup, (no smoke at all when cold) and it's a LOT. I'll take a vid of it to show you, it's a genuine James Bond smokescreen. The engine has 170-180psi cranking compression across the board, and there is absolutely NO blowby at all. There is no oil in the turbo piping. I'm so confused as to why it's burning oil right now. The only thing I can think of is that a week ago the electric fan motor burned up w/o my knowledge, and while I was tuning idle VE I didn't notice until the MS temp readout was at 240 deg F. (ironically the stock gauge was accurate at that moment, it was a hair under 250..if only it was reliably accurate, my temp gauge will show 190 deg as 140 or as 190 depending on it's mood...but it seems to indicate the engine is overheating well) I'm hoping I didn't collapse my pistons, but wouldn't the cranking compression go down as well? Should I put the breather on the block connection and then plumb the PCV to the valve cover? Any suggestions would be awesome. Thank you all for the help you've given me so far. I hope I can resolve this, otherwise I might just have to buy 30qt of oil to prepare for my cross-country drive. It's funny in a way because it reminds me of this one episode of "Talespin" where baloo didn't have his plane but Louie did, but it used a lot of oil, so Baloo gets a great idea. The next scene shows the plane trailing a thick blue cloud, panning to Louie cursing (at least as much as a disney cartoon character can) as he's sitting on the cowling of the airplane pouring a quart of oil in every 10 minutes, and the oil not getting into the engine is spattering baloo in the face....too bad that scene is reminding me of my Z right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linluv84 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Correct me if im wrong, but on typical turbo swaps isnt the norm to put a filter on the valve cover and re-route the pcv to before the turbo inlet? I know factory turbos are setup a bit differently, but they have federal emissions to report to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 run the PVC open.. do not attach a filter or hose.. see ow the car runs.. as for the valve cover breather.. do the same thing temporarily.. use a small screen to prevent objects from goin in... the valve cover breather and PVC breathe OUT .. so nothing will get sucked in.. but just in case then report back to us BTW - does the car smoke immediatly on start up? or does it take a bit? if it smokes on startup and all the time its a bad valve seal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Holy ressurected thread Batman! Sup guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Speak of the man and the man surfaces! See Jersey's reply to Mus's post. We missed ya man! To throw something pertinent in to this thread, if you don't see oil residue in the intake tract, it has to be coming from the engine internally (guides or rings) or the exhaust side of the turbo. Spark plugs will tell you a lot. If there is no sign of oil on the plugs, it's the turbo. Pull off the downpipe, take a flashlight and look into the turbo. I'll bet you will see a nice coating of black shiny oil in the bottom of the turbine housing. Can anyone guess how I know this? Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoeightythreez Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 K, tried disconnecting it entirely. Still smokes after it gets hot (No smoke whatsoever on cold start, no blow-by either) I think my so-called rebuilt turbo is blowing oil like crazy. (I'm using a quart per 100 or so miles...and not fouling plugs, no WAY it's actually burning all that) Yesterday I tried installing a new coil (huge accel super coil...holds like a qt of oil!) then I decided to reverse the pcv flow, and while I had it apart I hooked a hose and blew through it, motor is open, then tried sucking on it, and got a lungful of crankcase gases....kids don't try that at home! lol So now I have the PCV hooked up like this... I turned the block breather tube so it's pointing straight up, and installed the breather there (It's a bit too close to the hood when it's on the valve cover for my comfort), then removed the pcv valve and plugged the opening, took out the nipple for the heater controls and what do ya know, it's the same size and thread as the PCV valve!) Then a hose goes from there to the valve cover. Yes, I know I need to find another pcv valve, one that has a small spring in it, eventually (it's upside down so it's always open unless I'm boosting) The car seems to run a lot better now. (but she still smokes like dennis leary) I'm afraid to drive it for fear of being pulled over, it smokes so bad (and that fixit ticket would be HUGE....car's not referreed) I also installed my wideband and found out that my cruise AFR is like 16.5 to 1 so I'm gonna richen it up a tad. Thank you for all your help, I'll keep you guys posted on the progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoeightythreez Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I'll bet you will see a nice coating of black shiny oil in the bottom of the turbine housing. Can anyone guess how I know this? Shoot, It got worse last night, I don't even have to pull the DP to see the oil, all i have to do is rev the engine to 4000rpm in neutral and a black pool forms behind the tailpipe Guess it's time to upgrade that turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoeightythreez Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Ok some bad news, hopefully will fix itself...it does not appear to be the turbo after all...I pulled the o2 sensor and it had no oil on it, just lots of carbon...the "oil" I saw out of the tailpipe must have been condensation and residual oil. Since I'm going to have a shop make me a new air filter pipe after this short underway we're doing (and weld in an IAT bung so I can have it in the right place, and also relocate my wideband farther back before I burn it up in the factory o2 location right behind the turbo) I'll be able to see if the oil burning abates a bit. If not, a cross-country drive definitely will give 'em a chance to seat. I'm doing the thing I read about here to try to seat them, lots of speed changes and such. The good news is now that I have a wideband I can lean it out quite a bit, this might help a lot. I took the car to a shop to get a leak-down done, but they never got past pulling the plugs out, since they appear to be fouled on 1,2,3,5, and 6. (they weren't last time i pulled them) Pretty much I'm gonna change the oil and drive it to see if the rings seat, if not I guess my "good deal" engine wasn't such a good deal. I did notice that after the highway run (the shop is in El Cajon) it was using no oil, even after 5 minutes idling. Weird. Then, after waiting 10 minutes, fire it up, and it starts smoking a few minutes later. I leaned it out a lot (so my cruise AFR is like 16.5:1) and leaned the idle 14.7:1 and it seems better, but still using oil. Hopefully the rings seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 maby leaking muffler bearings!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleKat Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 I had a simular problem with my turbo Ka24de in my 95 240sx , check the oil return line from the turbo to the oil pan . If theres any restrictipons or if the line size can't flow enough oil will overload the seals in the turbo and smoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoeightythreez Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Ok yesterday I was sitting in traffic and she started smoking bad...I mean I couldn't see the cars behind me, so I got it to the freeway and ran it out to clear the plugs, went to the base hobby shop and pulled the plugs. All six have carbon residue on them but the electrodes themselves were whitish, almost normal (I'm running 15.5 to 16:1 on cruise, 14.7 at 80 kpa, 13.5:1 at 100kpa and maxing out at 10.5:1 at 140kpa.) I pulled the downpipe off and saw no liquid oil, just to be sure I waited an hour and fired it up, no liquid oil sprayed out. No oil on the intake side, either. So the turbo is good. I changed the oil and took it for a drive in the mountains, good old 30 weight dino oil. I couldn't see any smoke but she was burning for sure, (I'm sure the Bimmer I owned in the mountains got smoked out), because when I got back, after using 3/4 tank of gas 245 miles later, (20mpg is indeed not bad considering i got that turbo red-hot!) I was TWO QUARTS LOW. DOH! I put a quart of Lucas in it and another qt of 30 wt and will try another run tomorrow. I don't understand how it keeps running, burning that much oil . I want to tear the motor down and see what's wrong but I don't have time...i have a few more underway periods left in the 17 days I have left in the navy, the 17 days before I start the drive back to Allentown. I guess I can just keep a couple of cases of oil in the back and try to chance it, or do you guys think I should just get another motor? I'm thinking the valve guides must be bad, it smokes worst at idle, and not at all when it's cold. (once in awhile there's a tiny little puff, but once warmed it smokes like a 2-stroke) Is it possible for a head gasket to blow and still have compression but leak oil into the cylinders? I'm at a loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george.bryant Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Ok guys, I found this post whilst searcing for PCV information on Google. I have a l20et and I have just upgraded the turbo, the PCV valve was interfering with the position of the turbo so I removed it and bunged it and let the block breath to atmosphere. Now the car runs like Rubbish, really really badly infact. I have a big flat spot, i'm looking at my lack of PCV valve. Is it easier enough to move it into one of those bungs on the bottom of the inlet valve? Does anyone know what size I'd have to tap it too? Thanks a million! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 It's got to be the turbo. I went through the same thing with my GN. I tore everything apart and rebuilt the entire motor because I was sure the turbo was good. Guess what? It wasn't. After throwing up my hands I brought the car to a GN specialist who took the downpipe off, shined a flashlight into the turbo, and showed me the oil residue in the turbo. I also had no sign of oil in the downpipe since the cast iron of the turbo would get hot enough to burn off the oil before there was enough to leak out. You also have to remember that the turbine is also trying to keep the liquid oil to the outside of the housing preventing it from leaking. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george.bryant Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Sigh. The turbo has only been on the car 4 days, was previously on Stagefumer11's R30. It's a RB20det turbo on the L20et. I'll be really dissapointed if it is the turbo, it still boosts fine its just hesitant as I thought something else on the engine wasnt running correctly. What exactly was wrong with your turbo Joe? Was it the Oil seals or soemthing along those lines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoeightythreez Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 george, It's actually pretty easy to relocate the PCV to one of those plugs, the hard part is actually drilling the hole, that plug is made from some super-tough stuff! Not only that, it's almost impossible to get a good grip on that plug w/o damaging it's threads, and if you're gonna drill into it whilst still on the intake you'll have a much better time simply drilling and tapping the intake itself. (much softer metal, aluminum is) I believe there is a boss on the top side of the intake that is thick enough to accomodate drilling/tapping. I forget the bit size but it's about the same dia. as the hex that's already in the plug. The best way is to find the size of the PCV threads (I think it's like 3/8npt or close) and then buy the correct drill bit and tap for that size. Or...you could do what I did... Plumb the block breather into the intake side of the turbo (OK I haven't gotten this far yet, I have a breather there right now but it's what I'm planning) and then, using some 5/8 hose, plumb the upper valve cover PCV vent into a PCV valve. Some autoparts store searching should find you a valve that has hose nipples on each end that will work. Find a PCV valve that will fit snugly into the 5/8 hose on it's outlet (the side facing the cam cover) and with an inlet that will accept a 1/4" vacuum hose. (by inlet I mean the side that actually faces the vacuum source..e.g. the intake) Now that you have the valve and the hose, remove the plug that blocked off your heater controls vacuum if you have a non-ac 280 and install a fitting there from an auto 280z. It will have a 1/4" nipple on top and a much smaller one on the bottom. If you have A/C your heater controls hose goes on the smaller one and hook the Pcv vaccum side to the 1/4" nipple (which originally fed the vacuum modulator) This should give you ample vacuum to remove crankcase gasses but not so much to allow you to suck oil from the cam cover. Of course, this is just how I did it, there are several ways to relocate your PCV valve. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoeightythreez Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Joe, Thank you for the advice. I have tried running with PCV disconnected and the oil burning continues. Today I started it cold and drove right to the hobby shop (only about 1 mile from where I parked, and let it cool down.) I then pulled plugs and saw none visibly fouled on the electrodes, no liquid oil on the plugs. (I would think that if it's the rings or guides passing that much oil that a cold start w/o a warmup would be sufficient to leave liquid on plugs) The electrodes are whitish-grey like they're supposed to be. I then did a cranking compression test, here's cylinders 1-6: 160, 150,150,155,155,160. That's within tolerance, I think. I then started the car up after letting it get COMPLETELY cold, and no puff of smoke upon startup. I then revved the engine to 4000 rpm for 10 seconds and snapped it back to idle, and there was this HUGE amount of carbon exiting the tailpipe. (the ground about 1ft behind the taipipe was BLACK) But still no smoke. Two days ago I pulled the downpipe off the factory elbow, and no oil, just tons of carbon. Does this hang the turbo for sure or do you suspect engine problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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