Guest WickedBushi Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 im buying a '73 240z from a friend of mine who has kept it for over 2 years and kept it, according to me, in a great condition. he has not only maintained the car but has also added extras. i see the car on a regular basis and am asking him to hold it for me till i get the money required to purchase it. well, neway, without draggin this on forever, i just wanted to get some advice as to what i should look for and what kind of engine to swap(if any) for autocrossing. this is not only going to be a race car, but is also going to be my daily driver. his car has a racing cam in there already from motorsport auto. by the time i get the car, he has promised webbers triple carbs in it. does anyone know how much power and torque i can acquire with the stock engine just by working on it. and/or if i should plan a swap with something. i have a rotary engine in mind(preferrably the 20b powerplant) but dont know where i could get it. im in california and dont know much about ppl who can import these for me. as i said i am only a beginner but i want to do so much. any help/advice will be greatly appreciated. oh and he has also installed a 5-speed tranny from a 280z. can i please get some figures as to how good the aceleration and the top speed is in this car if, lets say, the tranny is from a late 77 280z compared to an early '80's 280zx? he said that the differential is from a 260z. any benefits there? this car, as i said, is in great condition and ppl have offered him $6k-$8k already. also, besides the engine swap, what else would i need to do in terms of drivetrain to keep up with the 20b(if i got it)? should i just stick with the standard engine for now and try to tweak ist as much as possible and then get around to swaps and other stuff or should i keep from spending any more money in the car, save up, and buy and install another engine. i dont want to make the car any heavier than it is and want to reduce the wieght if anything. however, i am also open minded about a swap that is going to give me respectable power where the wieght is close to irrelevant. im nopt interested in drag racing the car but more interested in the acceleration and the cornering abilities. thank you once agen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I'll start things off. One of our favorite members is attempting a Mazda swap (20b as well?) that, last I heard, has become quite a challenge in that the turbos do not fit without some creative surgery. If the Z car you want runs well, then IMHO, I'd look at the chassis first. Installing suspension, and brakes, that provide you the feel and safety you're looking for. While doing this you can "sleep" on powerplant ideas so that when you do make a decision, it won't be one you regret later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WickedBushi Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 u know that was my first move. to fix the suspension and do tweaking here and there. by the way, the car already has tokico shocks all around. now i dont know what i could put in there thats heaps better. any idea as to what kind of springs? how bout tyres? wut kind? and is brembo pretty good for the brakes? is there a cost effective way to make my brakes a lot better? i guess i should use my common sense but i just want to hear some opinions and decide from that. guess thats what posts are for, right? no question is dumb, right?! unless its not about Z's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 What makes you think you need a swap? I'm just curious. Rather than planning on pulling the engine right away, maybe do the suspension mods as Blueoval suggested and campaign it for a season or two. If you feel like 140 or whatever hp (cam/webbers/etc) its putting out now isn't enough, then think of ways to more power. I had a Corolla with a whopping 112Hp and around 90ft/lbs Tq, but good suspension, it was way more fun than my 300Hp Camaro with moderate suspension upgrades. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 First off, RUN... Don't walk, But run, away from that project... Run... OK, you're still here I see... Not good... OK, now empty the wallet, empty the savings, empty the college fund for the kids... Now we can start! Seriously, do a search and you will see what many of us have done with various projects, with varying success. Welcome, and prepare to read a LOT before you spend a dime... I'd follow Terry's advice and nail down suspension and brakes, and shop for cost effective parts for your chevy/ Ford/ Whatever swap! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 I agree with Deep and BlueOvalZ. I would first make sure everything on it is in tip-top shape, but not do any upgrades. Run it for a season and get some driving experience with it, see how you like it, then decide. In the mean time be doing some research into the available options for an engine swap should you decide to do one and suspension changes if it needs any. You'll find many engines that meet your specs and picking the one you want may not be an easy decision, so do your research and be open minded about your options. Ken W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WickedBushi Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 how about it? need some help wit suspension setup. how much positive camber and such. what kinda suspension allows me to make chages with ease. can i get a 4 weel brake package? how about brake balance controllers? any help will be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aaron Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Check these links (in not particular order) for your suspension and brake parts. They are members here and have a good reputation. http://www.fonebooth.com/auto.html http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/default.php http://www.jskinnovations.com/ Browse the suspension forum, and you will find all the information you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 ill try to help out abit. 1st off our Fav member thats doing the Rotary swap is doing a 13B, not a 20B... BUT.. i could only imagine that the 20B would be harder. whats HP goals? i know you said more of a track/street car, so what do you feel is a comfy HP goal for yourself? you dont want so much in auto-x'ing but alot never hurts on the street hehe. i'd say do what terry said which is suspension and brakes 1st. i was told from a wise member on here (Bob_H) that if your truly a car/racer/Z nut then the 1st thing to do is brakes. its that important. I went with Juan's (JSK) front brake setup with the wilwood calipers and rotors and had wilwood custom made my front stainless steel lines. my rears are simple 240sx rear calipers, Z31 300zx n/a rear rotors, and gotr the caliper brackets, pads, and lines from Ross (modern-motorsports). Both are great people to deal with and will help you any way they can. you already said you have struts from tokico so thats a great start. now what kind of tires/wheels will you run? street and Auto-X. wide tires and wheels? if so go coilovers.. you can also get them from Ross (modern-motorsports). Sway bars are a must and you can also get them from Ross i think, and DEFF do new bushings, i bought the Energy Suspension Master kit for my 280Z from Ross also. also make sure your steering rack is good. if you really want to go all out Ross is now making Adjustable control arms which are a great buy! thats if you really want to get hi-tech. now you dont have to go the way i did, as there are other ways to go, some cheaper and maybe better. modern-motorsports has a NICE big brake kit out now but if you dont want to spend the big money you can do great with the toyota 4x4 upgrade. on the motor i say drive around that one abit and see if you like it. nothing sounds better then triple webbers on a L6.. i love it. if you want something more then think about the L28ET (280zx turbo motor).. it fits with really no mods and you can make alot of power out of it, more then you will need in a auto-x car. there is so many ways you can go, it all depends on $$$$$ and how much of that money you wanna spend. also dont be like most of us and have there Z's on jackstands for years on end.. its no fun watching it, its fun driving it. best of luck and keep us posted. mike (wow im sounded like most of you oldies on here heheheh) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 About four degrees positive Camber! I couldn't resits... I kid, but I care... Read read read... You do NOT want positive CAMBER... You want Negative Camber... You want your wheels to be like this: / For everyday and track use, you can get away with about a degree to a degree and a 1/4 negative camber once you get the parts to make the adjustment... You also would want to adjust your toe and give yourself positive caster of several degrees above the stock 3-ish setting. The real question is what kinda tires will you run, will you have a second set for trakc/ autocross use, and are you prepared to spend extra on adjustable suspension... Most of the hard core guys here have THOUSANDS tied up in their brakes and suspensions The adjustable control arms I used to make and sell were easily $900 shipped, and I suspect the guys offering arms up now will charge atleast that much, if not more. Coil overs will run you $400 for a set, then you need to have them installed... Prepare to pay at least that much to have them installed. I'll tell you what I tell all the new comers... Put pen to paper and plan plan plan... Get a budget and stick to it... And most of all, Don't do like most of us do and get soooo consumed in building it that HALF A DECADE goes by and you don't DRIVE IT! And most important of all... Welcome, Welcome to a new, and strange brew! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 All I can say about a 20b swap is the following: 1. you won't find any parts available for it HERE 2. the engine would be paired to an rx7 transmission which is offset to the passenger side for weight distribution. So is hte Z drive train. Your turbos are on the passenger side. 3. As a result of #2, your engine will sit 2" closer to pass. side from center. 4. Turbos won't clear 5. it's 1/3 longer than the stock 13b block, so you won't have room to relocate the turbo to the front of hte motor unless you're very good and creative with a welder to move the turbo someplace where there's room in the engine bay. 6. the motor alone costs about 5-6k. 7. refer to #6, then to #1. 8. expect to invest another 1000 for the ECU 9. 1000 for aftermarket turbo/wg/blow off valve, and that's on the cheap side. 10. actually, expect to invest about 12-15k total to get this swap right. my suggestion is not to do it, especially if you're not familiar with rotaries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 ...Or you can just Buy Alex' project and relieve him from his HELL! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 ha! very funny.... but depending on the time frame, that MIGHT be an option, although not likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WickedBushi Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 okay, jokes aside, i am very grateful for all u guys' contribution to this post and in helping me out with the initial question. im not going for the 20b. well at least not for now. im gonna keep the original engine and tweak the suspension and the brakes for now. later on, though, im thinking about a jz-gte or a 2jz-gte. maybe in a year. and then later, maybe(just maybe) if i get my hands on it, an rb26dett. a vg30dett is also in consideration. BUTTTTTT for now im keeping the original motor(for at least another year). with the triple webbers. just one question, how much power will i be getting out of the triple carburated L24 with motorsport headers and maybe a nice aftermarket exhaust? im also willing to have straight pipes from the headers with no mufflers. i'll deal with the law but just wanted to know what the maximum amount of power i can get with the original engine without a supercharger or any internal mods. now how about if i got some internal work done on it as well? im not power hungry as i posted before. i just want to know the potential of the engine and if its good enough, then i'll keep the original engine and forget about the 2jzgte or the jzgte. once again, i'd like to thank you all for ur kind suggestions and helping me out. expect more from me as i go thru what most of you have done. peace. oh by the way its good to know there's another z enthusiast from the bay area here at hybridz.org. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 There is a recent post elsewhere about this very issue (Check the six cylinder forum) but the thing to remember is the weight of the car... It may only turn 150-170WHP, but it is in a very fun light car... So in answering your question, I'd have to say I would be happy with less than 200HP with the right brakes and suspension... Especially as a daily driver... Based on your mods you speak of, I'd suspect you would be in that range... 140-170HP with a bunch of bolt ons, especially if you get those carbs tuned at 100% Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 there's a bunch of us, actually. dan juday z-dreamer davyz 73botiz fl327 bayareazt jumbo240ez dmanzo57 strotter moridin and a whole lot more i'm not thinking of at hte moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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