Guest bastaad525 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 ]Hey Jon' date=' I think you missed my point.I never once suggested that the SU's were superior to the triples. I was merely pointing out the fact that SU's can make some serious HP!! Loan me your Mikuni's for a month and I'll test the theory of triples superiority!! LOL Actually, with my mild cam, triples would not add much HP over the SU's.However, were I to go with a more radical cam I could see a large HP gain being possible. later,norm[/quote'] Jon, I second this statement to the letter. I have not once said SU's are superior, and have conceded that they WILL, DEFINATELY, make more power on an L6 than SU's will. I also agree though that the potential for the triples to increase power is definately linked to how modified the motor is, i.e.: a stock motor with stock cam probably wont see much improvement and some have actually seen them HURT driveability, whereas a built, high compression motor with a hot cam and head work would definately benefit greatly on the top end from the increased flow potential triples give. All I'm saying is that for mildly built or stock, street driven cars, SU's are MY preference, and many might agree, because most mild setups I've seen with trips on them have SUFFERED in the low end and mid range torque and power areas, and since the motors were only mild, they could not take advantage of the high end flow the trips would give. You can argue all day that maybe these persons setups weren't set up or tuned right or whatever, but I've found it to be pretty universal among the people I know who've installed trips and went to the dyno to have them tuned. I also agree with Norm that though SU's can never come even close to outflowing trips, they are not completely useless either as you tend to make it sound. You CAN achieve good power while running SU's. On the other side of the coin, I still do not believe you can gain 40hp by simply switching to triples, UNLESS, your motor is so built and head done so well, and running a hot enough cam so as to have this great super high flowing motor that is literally being choked off by the triples... most peoples L6's aren't done up nearly enough to realize that much of an increase from that one mod alone, and again, the typical, mildly modified L6 running maybe headers and a mild cam, that gets driven on the street daily, could actually be hurt by using them. Bottom line for me: Triples ARE worth the money, IF and ONLY IF you've ALREADY spent the money elsewhere to build a killer motor that needs and will take advantage of their increased flow! Which most people have not! IMO, if someone is going around asking "hey do you think I should install triples?" chances are they have not built up their motor nearly enough to need them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Very few would use Mikunis if your results were the norm' date=' Norm. I'm not aware of ANYONE who has come even close to your results with them. I like the idea of those carbs, but after switching to triples I would not go back. I have friends who autox and roadrace in Z's and 510's who feel the same way, and none who have gone to Mikunis and then decided to switch back to SU's. Jon[/quote'] Your example speaks for itself... again, trips are great if you're racing all the damn time! I do personally know one guy, named mike, who works at a smog place and has helped me tune my own SU's, he switched to trips on a mildly built up L28, and having access to a dyno right there in his shop, spent tons of time tuning and tuning them, bought several books... you name it. Also had a friend of his who has built a few 510's come over and toy with them and pronounce them to be tuned 'perfectly'. Again, you can debate this part all you like... I find that whenever someone downplays trips someone else always pops up and says "they must not be tuned right". But anyways, I have to assume these two guys together knew what they were doing, and got them tuned at least reasonably well. After all was said and done though, Mike was not happy with the trips over the SU's, and DID switch back! Mikes case illustrates my point because his Z was his daily driver. He complained that the thing had no umph in low revs when driving on the street, and got horrible gas mileage to boot. So my question is this Jon, would you preach triples to someone running a mildly modified motor on the street every day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 OK, you've found ONE example. Don't want to delve too deep into the triples thing, but there are other factors too, runner length, air filters, air horns, carb size, etc. As to your "out of tune carbs" thing, people say the SAME EXACT THING about SU's. Why did I get 40 hp out of Mikunis??? Obviously because I didn't have the SU's tuned to perfection. I've heard that before and I'm sure I'll hear it again. Bottom line for me is they make buttloads more power, and I am a weekend warrior. We all got sidetracked from the original thread here, which mentioned triple throttle bodies. Would I recommend TB's for a daily driver? YES, if they were willing to pay for the initial setup and tuning. Would I recommend Mikunis for a guy who is driving to the store or to work? NO. Would I recommend ANY carbed Z car to a guy who doesn't know anything about cars? NO. Would I recommend triples for the weekend warrior who knows how to work on his car and wants more power? YES. DEFINITELY. Would I have recommended triples for you on your NA motor? Not sure. Honestly, if you can't tune them yourself, they are a big PITA. But I can say with some level of confidence that you would have hit 200 whp. I still think you give WAAAAY too much credit to the headwork, and not enough to the rest of the induction system. EDIT--Would I suggest that I have the ONLY or BEST answers for Z related questions? NO. That's why I'm here. Just thinking this post may have come off a little arrogant, which I am not trying to be... Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 As to your "out of tune carbs" thing' date=' people say the SAME EXACT THING about SU's. Why did I get 40 hp out of Mikunis??? Obviously because I didn't have the SU's tuned to perfection. I've heard that before and I'm sure I'll hear it again. Bottom line for me is they make buttloads more power, and I am a weekend warrior. Jon[/quote'] I would never say that, not to anyone I thought knew at least a little bit about cars. SU's are very easy to tune, three screws to balance the airflows, two knobs to adjust mixture, and you're done. Most people will say if there's one thing about SU's they are very simple to tune. I'm sure you had your SU's tuned pretty darned well. The real hardcore tuning, the custom needles and such, could probably have helped though, and I'll bet they shortened have shortened your claimed 40hp gap. But that's expensive and time consuming. Maybe even more so than tuning trips, though I've done neither so can't really say. But those needles are the real key. People are taking carbs off of a 2.4 liter and expecting them to run right on a 2.8 or larger? The stock needles are no good. Lots of people recommend SM needles, this is what I ran, but they were, for me, by no means the perfect solution either.... when you go building a motor for which no SU needles have been designed to fit the fuel requirments of, then the only way they will EVER run perfect is to get some custom made. So I can say, you probably had them tuned as good as could be w/o going this extra step, but your motor breathed more than they could, so this is why you benefitted from the trips. Even with custom needles, I wouldn't say the SU's could compare to well setup triples on a built motor, but it's a tuning option I do think more street driven L6 drivers SHOULD do. Then again, I would still recommend the overbored 'Jag' SU's with custom needles before I would ever recommend trips for a street driven car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramercyjam Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Jack Daniels talking here .... Screw tuning triples. Who cares if they idle or run smooth part throttle. Who cares what your gas mileage is. Not me. Some people can tune em. Most people can't handle it. Hell, most people can't even change an oil filter without screwing it up. For me, they only need to work when my foot is thru the floor, and for me they do. But then again, I AM a savage neanderthal. And oh yea, how much faster will I go if I get the anodized underdrive pulleys instead of the plain ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 And oh yea, how much faster will I go if I get the anodized underdrive pulleys instead of the plain ones? None unless the pulleys have HKS, AEM, or Unorthodox stamped on them. Then they are good for 5 hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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