Guest johnny1913 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 I haven't done an engine build before. I want to do a v-8 swap and have read up enough on it and have the JTR book so that I think I can do it. I just need v-8 and cheap. I'd like 350 hp. I want to get it done by the end of summer if that's possible. So I don't want to spend a couple months finding heads, another few months scouring swap meets for intakes, etc. How should I go about it all? Junkyards, swap meets, etc? I don't know where to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 What kind of budget are you on? 350HP out of a SBC 350 is pretty easy but that all depends you are trying to build that with junkyard stuff or new stuff. Also how reliable do you want this engine to be? You can have 350HP pretty easy but how long do you want to have it? Is this a daily driver or a track car? Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 2 words.... Crate Engine.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 71240350Z Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 I want to share with you the very easiest way for a SBC 350 HP engine and MAD torque?--- 14 months ago I had a New project car, my 6th Z, it was a 240Z 50K origonal miles, Very clean,, I have built 280Z's 260Z's 280zx's, but never a 240z yet,--- with this I wanted the easiest way to obtain 350 streetable HP, so I researched for 3 months, and one day at the track I met a guy with a 240Z and he had a SBC 327 in it from a 64 Vette, it was putting out roughly 345HP stock, fully stock, he ran a very respectable 12 flat and we are at high altitude here in utah, so I took his advice and found me 327 from a 65 Vette, the engine had 237K stock Miles from a good friend,the SBC 327 edition, it came stock with...... any and was still putting out 330HP, not bad hu? very tight engines and it had an amazing RPM range, However these 2 bolt main 327's are not to good over because of the 2 bolt, but who cares!!, that engine will allways give you a 12 to 11 second Quarter, as long as you have the right suspension, tranny setup, and some other special touches, FIND ONE, 64 through 67 ( i think) 327 SBC make sure its the 350HP one, not all 327's had the performance build, look on ebay, they came stock with 60CC heads, flat top pistons, quite a wilde engine I must say, I will NEVER part with mine, if you build them up, ( port. polish. balance, the thing ) you will rev up in the 8500 rpm range, and ANYSBC V8 running 6000 RPM and above, you know your running a very evil engine, thats with no Nitrous, no supercharger, no turbo, turbos, all naturally aspirated, anyway, I know alot of hybrid Z guys will agree with me and alot will also suggest totally different setups, but you can pick up a stock 65 vette 327 with high miles for 500 to a thousand dollars put a rebuild kit in it and be fully done with a newly rebuilt engine for under 2K maby even under a thousand, and that engine will out perform ANY series of the vg30Dett and the RB series skyline engines, I know this because I have my 327 doing 8500 rpm, and 412 HP on 92 OT pump gas, I ran a 10.2 second quarter mile 33 days ago, thats the very best I have EVER done, the extra 50 HP over stock was accomplished by simply replacing the stock- headders, stock intake with a Victor JR intake, Deamon carb, and a new rebuild using forged flat top pistons, also remember that those heads that come stock are 60cc and cast iron, so just replace them with some real nice aluminum 60cc combustion chamber heads get the very best port job you can get, brodix is the brand of aluminum heads I chose, all in all I spent 3,300.00, and you wont find a more drivable, smooth, but still quite radical, very streetable car with a 412 RWHP drag/street setup ANYWHERE, this is the 6th V8Z I have built, I have had the 690HP blown 383 stroker, 715 foot pounds of torque 1977 280Z, that engine was a MONSTER, and it was 12 thousand dollars, but it was not comfortable AT ALL!!!!, it only ran 2 seconds faster 8.1 sec 1/4, I didnt ride that one, a pro drag friend of mine did that, but I did run a 9.3 in it, that was scarry, 130 MPH, the 71 240z I have right now is way more fun, and with my 77 280z, I couldnt drive it on the street because even the very best tires would burn on practically idle, yes it was fast, but every time we ran a race something would break because it was way too much engine, not much fun, and EVERYONE knew you were going to kill them in a street race because of the damn blower standing 15 inches out the top of the hood, and that it had no interrior padding, and it was all roll cage. so trust me, go with 350 to 400 HP max, its a TON of power, but you can still build a comfortable streetable ride, and by the way, I have NEVER lost a street race, in the 71 240z and my zero to sixty is 3.1 seconds , I even had a viper race me, ita a 500 HP turbo V10, but he still weighs 1800 pounds more than me, beat him by a full second, and he was VERY fast, so look for a stock 327 from a 65 or same engine vette, you will thank me for this I promise. 8) 8) , ZJuice Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 71240350Z Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 1 more thing, the Above mentioned 8 second z I talked about had a !!!crate engine!!!! in it, so the Man is right, a CRATE ENGINE if you have the money, will give you a very good pro built engine, but dont go over 450HP or all you will have is a VERY lot of bracing and welding and WORK to get that Z not to twist. and even then your going to break stuff on every run. trust me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 71240350Z Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Forgot to also mention, your brackets, DONT MAKE THOSE YOURSELF, it sounds easy and all, but get them made professionally, or purchase them from JTR, and last thing, the JTR book is great and all, but it only has enough information to get you dangerously in trouble, doent get me wrong with the right help this is a cake walk, but read these forums, they contain more information than the JTR book,. and they have ther grusome facts on what will happen if you spend too much time working on just the engine, you must not neglect the suspension, tranny, r200 Diff, I recomend a Limited Slip off a 240sx or skyline.... and know how to reinforce your frame, ANYthing over 300 HP and you must do the strut towers, over 350 and even more needs to be done, the engine is easy, get the rest built right and you can run an 11 sec 1/4 with a 300 HP engine, dont sacrifice traction and drivability for more HP, and study EVERYTHING you can about suspension, it will drop a full second on your time with the correct suspension setup. good luck, I dont know it all I promise, but I have built more V8 z's than most will in there life, the best way to do it right is to break stuff after you did it wrong, you will lurn on what you break. I just hope its not you that you break because thats a real hard lesson, last remember your harness, you are building a race car, where your safety belt. get a pro safety harness. ok I am done now. your friend On the forum Josh ZJuice Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 320Zeven Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 So what tranny goes with that Vette motor? could there be another wonder motor cause i know you blue print and balance alot of motors and they'll run beautifully.. Thrillz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 It's getting deep in here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COZY Z COLE Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Some amazing reading!!!!!! LARRY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 My head hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnny1913 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 This Corvette 327 sounds cool, but almost too good to be true. I tried to find an engine online and just found the cars for sale. The cars are like $30k-40k. It doesn't sound like the stock engine is going to be $500. I don't really know though. My budget is close to $4000 for the swap. I don't have to do everything all at once. I just would need to get everything in the car that would be needed to drive it all at once. I'd like to get it done before summer's end and I need to keep my car drivable as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillZ260 Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 FOCUS on the drive train and try not to change out ANYTHING else unless it is needed to be safe. I had the same 4k to swap and here my car sits, with lots of new parts and NO MOTOR! You should be able to do it but you have to FOCUS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 There is nothing magical about 327 corvette engines. A 350 with the same stuff on it will kick a 327's butt. The same goes for a 383 over a 350 or a 327 over a 302 or 283. Cubic inches rule. What makes an engine run is all in the heads, cam, intake and exhaust. The block only needs to stay together. Plus heads have improved greatly over the past few years. Those old 327 heads suck compared to the new vortec heads or any other after market head ( AFR, dart, trick flow, ect.) The easiest way to make 350 hp is to buy a crate engine. You could even buy a new Goodwrench 350 for 1200.00 and install a cam/springs, intake, carb, and headers and make 350 hp. Then later install a better set of heads and make 400 hp. Go to chevyhiperformance.com. They did a nice 7 or 8 part build up of this same engine which you can read from their web site. Or buy a set of 64cc vortec heads and install them in a 350 with flat top pistons and a 280 comp cam and make 380 to 400 hp. The 350 doesn't need to be anything special. Cast crank, cast pistons, and two bolts will handle a bunch of power (500+). A junk yard 350 short block with a good quality rebuild by a "real racing machine shop" will make a big difference. (bored with torque plates and balanced) Block hugger headers into a single 3" exhaust system works well on a V8 Z. Don't make a big, heavy, noisy, and expensive exhaust system if you are going to make under 400 hp. Gm T5 5 spds are hard to find. Make sure to get the 5 spd from a V8 if you are going to use this transmission. They will handle a lot of power if driven correctly, that is, be easy on the clutch drops and shift kind of slow. I hate 700R transmissions. Expensive, don't shift when you want, short lived, and feel wrong in a Z. But that is just my opinion after using a few in my Z. I now use a T5 a love it. It runs 10's and lives because I shift her like a school bus. It might be a good idea to look for a complete engine and trans set up to drop into you car. Or you could sell your car and add it to the 4000.00 budget and buy a Z with a V8 already in it!!! Which is really the easiest way to get 350 hp in a Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack46 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I have a Z and I am upgrading. I presently have a mild setup with a 383 that performs well. Note the unique alternator mounting low on passenger side. Gets it out of way and uses short belts so you won't throw a belt. I need to take better pictures so you can see more. Motor Once on home page put mouse on engine then click on cat and you will see a recent run at Huntsville dragstrip. Motor specifics I am going much larger so I will sell the motor, drive shaft and 2 R200. The gears are welded in both 3.54/4.11 and I also have a new set of slicks mounted on rims. Additional stuff available as well (rear strut brace) etc. I am going to do the dreaded tub and Ford 9". I have a modified mustache bar that bolts a little differently than stock and improves the stability. The problem is the car will break axles if I use juice, the joy and problem of a small valved 383 is it has bone crushing low end torque. Trust me you can see it puts me in seat 0 - 90 in 7.5 seconds ain't fast, but it is far from slow. You can read here about CV modification just think expensive. This setup will be fine with no juice others are running much faster than Iam without breaking joints sooo. Presently the car achieves 1.64 60 foots and in juicing twice I have not made it one foot so I don't have any idea what it would do with juice (I had 125 hooked up but creamed axle u joints). You have my page and email if interested let me know. Good luck I just read the post above I will say this if you can get 412 RWHP from a 327 you are far better than I am even in my dreams! That is over 500 at the flywheel. 327's were good in their day, but they ended with the 350 and definately when compared to a 383 or 400 CUBES win! I agree a 383 like my small valve won't pull much past 5600, but heck that's it's beauty, it has torque of 350+ ft lbs from 2500 - 5800, and peak of about 430ft lbs at 4500 (according to desktop engine analyzer). Say what you want, hp is nice but torque is what wins! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacer Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Those old Vette motors where "Gross" HP rated and not like todays "Net" HP rated engines. A 350 horse 327 is around 280 - 290 HP using today's net horsepower rating system. Listen to Tim240Z - CRATE MOTOR - here's a 330 HP, 380 Ft. Lbs. of torque GM 350 CID crate motor for $3495.95 including carb and distributor. http://www.paceparts.com/product.asp?0=239&1=241&3=940 It even comes with a GM factory warranty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportZ2 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I have a question. It was mentioned above that heads of today are better than anything from past generations. If this is the case can anyone explain to me why when I took a set of camelback heads to a machine shop, guys lined up to offer to buy them. I don't claim to know a lot about engines but the response from the people in the shop told me I had something worth keeping. They are on my motor so I'll find out soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 My 9.7:1 327, with ported camel hump 2.02 461 casting heads, Comp Xtreme solid flat tappet XS-274S-10 cam, block huggers, Holley 300-36 dual plane, Holley Projection 700cfm TBI, Tremec 5spd, 3.7 LSD, Toyo RA-1 255/40-17 tires pulling 1.90 0-60 foot (spinning) put down a 12.78@110 near sea level. Driver was me, so the 60 foot was not great. But the 110 mph in the car that was 3000 lbs with me in it shows about 375 hp at the crank. Which is on par with the old advertised numbers of 327/365 327/375, etc. I'm just saying a 327 CAN put out 375hp while still being somewhat streetable. But I'm (someday) going to complete assembly of my 406 that should be a 500hp 500ft-lb engine, with very streetable manners. It's just easier to do with more cubes! Just my opinion, but go for cubes. There's absolutely nothing special about an old Corvette 327, besides nostalgia and the ability to rev higher, if you believe that's needed. A larger displacement SBC with the same weight will give more torque down low, and depend less on bottom end and valvetrain robustness to make the same power as the smaller displacement engine. A crate 383 or 406 is what I'd be looking at for 350+ hp for low $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Art, I would imagine that they might collect some money from those who are restoring vettes and older muscle/pony cars. The Vortec will out flow them. They are old news and don't flow as well or have the better chamber design of any of the newer heads. Take their money and put it towards some Canfields, TFS, or ARPs!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack46 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I'm just saying a 327 CAN put out 375hp while still being somewhat streetable. Definately 350+ hp in a light car is fun and few rev like a 327! But if I try to build a motor I would likely have to pay more for a 327, so being that I'm cheap, I use what is cheapest bang for $, for me that was a 383. A 383 is tough to screw up if you get it decent exhaust it performs! It's just easier to do with more cubes! The point I was trying to make, a strong street 327 is not easy to build, and the 400+ RWHP in a 327 is very tough (without or Turbo Super). And for the Camel heads a friend says exactly that people will pay through the nose for 327/300 hp heads etc he says why? I have these Vortecs that out flow them, but they insist on paying more for these? Like mentioned we love to believe what we learned long ago. Hey I remember in the late 80's people still running the '151' chevy cam (327/375 hp cam). They refused to believe it could be beat, I saw a test where they beat it with a Crane 272 the crane had better throttle response torque HP etc with less duration. Old habits and beliefs die slowly. Edit: I just saw another post and the '151' was 327/350 the 365/375 I think were solid cams. Sorry bout that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dladow Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 But I'm (someday) going to complete assembly of my 406 that should be a 500hp 500ft-lb engine, with very streetable manners. It's interesting to think about the new BMW V-10 for the M-5, (no doubt a spectacular engineering feat) that produces about the same hp and torque, but at far higher rpm with commensurately greater stress on systems and parts. The cost of that V-10, if it was available as a crate engine, would be, what, north of $30K, $40k? I'll wager Pete won't be spending that much on his engine. Give me the simpler path to the same result any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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