jgkurz Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Hi all, I think I've finally found a plug that works well with my 3.0L L28ET setup. With the NGK BPR6ES-11 plugs the car started and idled well when cold, but no matter what did to the ignition timing or mixture it pinged under as little as 10psi of boost. I went to a BPR7ES-11 and it helped a little, but still it pinged under boost. A friend of mine recommended I try a non-projected electrode plug. I looked on NGK's website for a BR8ES-11 and there was such a plug, but it only came on Yamaha Waverunners. I bought six plugs from the Yamaha dealer since they looked identical to the NGK automotive plugs I've always run. I gapped them to .035 and went for a test drive. The car ran a little rough until it was warm. After that I had no problems. First I tried 12psi then 15psi then 18psi and no ping what so ever. The car pulled like a SOB until it bounced off the rev limiter at 6K. I know it's a little low, but I was testing and didn't want to over do it. It might have been able to run more boost, but I didn't want to find the limit. I think I'll keep it at 15psi on the 92 octane premium we have here in Oregon. It's plenty fast at 15psi. I can't wait to put race gas in and try a little higher boost. EDIT: Instead of the BR8ES-11 plugs I will being putting in BR8ES since I am running the smaller gap. The -11 plugs are for .044 gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2slo4u Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I tried some new plugs for an RX-7, like my friend's 90 model, in my 81 turbo zx and I didn't notice any difference. The car didn't run any better or worse. Does anyone here know why the RX-7 plugs didn't have the metal piece projecting over the electrode? Would they work better since the spark would not be covered at all? The plug electrodes for my stock plug and the RX-7 plug were in the same location so there was no clearance problem. 81zxturbo 95slobaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernardd Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Jeffp suggested I try those as well. We've got 91 oct as our premium gas in Manitoba. I'm going to try this as soon as I can get a set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slownrusty Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 John - Cool thanks for the heads up. Yasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted September 28, 2004 Author Share Posted September 28, 2004 I looked on NGK's website for a BR8ES-11 and there was such a plug, but it only came on Yamaha Waverunners. I bought six plugs from the Yamaha dealer since they looked identical to the NGK automotive plugs I've always run. I gapped them to .035 and went for a test drive. The car ran a little rough until it was warm. After that I had no problems. EDIT: Instead of the BR8ES-11 plugs I will being putting in BR8ES since I am running the smaller gap. The -11 plugs are for .044 gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernardd Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 John: I've ordered a set of the -11's. I can get the same spec different brand name that the shop swears are made by ngk anyway. Or cancel and go with the same ones you're picking up? By the way did you try the 8 heat range the regular ngk's? Edit: I just realized that you regapped them so I can do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afshin Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Thanks for the info John. I will go ahead an order a set and give it a shoot. I'm currently running the BR7es and did not notice any difference over the 6 heat range. You said that it ran a little rough when cold, do you have a msd unit or is it stock ignition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted September 29, 2004 Author Share Posted September 29, 2004 John: I've ordered a set of the -11's. I can get the same spec different brand name that the shop swears are made by ngk anyway. Or cancel and go with the same ones you're picking up? By the way did you try the 8 heat range the regular ngk's? Personally I would cancel the order and get the "real" NGK plugs. In my opinion there are few plugs made as well as the NGK. Regarding the BR8ES plugs I have not run them yet, but they should provide a more even gap than the equivalent - 11. If you want to run the smaller gap (.025-.035), the -11 plugs have to have the ground electrode bent down to the point that it's not parallel with the center electrode. That's bad! So far I have only tried the non-projected electrode in the "8" heat range. I did try the "7" in a projected tip, but they didn't make much difference. Thanks for the info John. I will go ahead an order a set and give it a shoot. I'm currently running the BR7es and did not notice any difference over the 6 heat range. You said that it ran a little rough when cold, do you have a msd unit or is it stock ignition? I have an Electromotive Tec3 EFI with direct fire ignition. It should have enough spark to fire these plugs under most any condition I could subject them to. When the car is cold I have to be careful when I start the car so I don't foul the plugs. If the car is cold and I let it idle to warm up rather than drive it, it will load up and stall after about 30 sec. Once the coolant has got up to normal temp it will idle nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernardd Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 I ran the BPR8ES's (found some ngk's) last night. The car did not seem to like them. I think I may have another issue as well because the the car was idling rich and then would go lean off throttle. I pulled the plugs and they had white on them. I'm having trouble with my boost controller so I need to investigate that a bit more before I can say for sure the plugs were causing this. I also need to play with the gap a bit to find out how that's effecting everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 just bought a set of these NGK-R plugs from a yamaha dealership off my road. just put them in and im going for my test drive in abit but wanted to make sure on the gapping. what you guys think i should gap them to? i ran my old plugs to like 28-30.. its a L28ET with a 77 ecu and harness, full exhaust, 10psi (with boost leak lol), tuned afm, fmic, adjustable FPR, and this and that. 240+K miles on it but great compression. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted September 29, 2004 Author Share Posted September 29, 2004 what you guys think i should gap them to?i ran my old plugs to like 28-30..mike Mike, What kind of ignition do you have? If you have the stock ignition you might consider running .030 if you are staying at 10psi or below. If you run more boost you may need to go to .025. If you are not having pre-ignition problems I'd stay with the BPR6ES-11 or BPR7ES-11 plugs. They will give you better cold start and driveability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 i got the BR8ES.. there gapped to 30-31 and i put them in and the car felt like it got all its power back.. i have stock igntion but i do have a MSD 6-btm for it but not installed. car is running pig rich so im afraid im gonna foul these too.. oh well. anyways how much did you pay for them? mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernardd Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I just got in from a ride with the old plugs. I changed nothing other than the plugs. Car runs fine again. I'll have to mess around with the gapping and try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted September 30, 2004 Author Share Posted September 30, 2004 I got my BR8ES plugs from the local Yamaha dealer for $2.42 each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I got my BR8ES plugs from the local Yamaha dealer for $2.42 each. not bad.. i paid $2.14 i re gapped them to 33 and it seems better abit. they did get rid of my slight miss fire at idle.. werid i guess. ill be putting on alot of miles on the car tomorrow so we will see how they do all day long mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted September 30, 2004 Author Share Posted September 30, 2004 I got my BR8ES plugs from the local Yamaha dealer for $2.42 each. not bad.. i paid $2.14 i re gapped them to 33 and it seems better abit. they did get rid of my slight miss fire at idle.. werid i guess. ill be putting on alot of miles on the car tomorrow so we will see how they do all day long mike Mike, Just curious, what type of problems with the factory BPR6ES-11 plugs made you look at a different plug? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 i never had the factory plugs.. i have had autolite Racing plugs and then went to the denso racing ones.. denso ones lasted a week. im having abit of a rich problem. only prob i have with these plugs is even when the car is sorta warmed up it sorta feels werid... i need to fix my boost problems before i can see how well these plugs hold up and etc though. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted September 30, 2004 Author Share Posted September 30, 2004 i never had the factory plugs.. i have had autolite Racing plugs and then went to the denso racing ones.. denso ones lasted a week.im having abit of a rich problem. only prob i have with these plugs is even when the car is sorta warmed up it sorta feels werid... i need to fix my boost problems before i can see how well these plugs hold up and etc though. mike Mike, I'm not the "end all" expert, but in your situation you might want to run the either the NGK BPR6ES-11 or the BPR6EY-11. Both should give you better results with a car having a rich mixture condition. The colder non-projected tip plugs really are only for high boost situations. The factory recommended plug should work well in your situation. Just my two cents..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dapiper Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 I have run the NGK BP8ES at 20 psi for years with no problems. The projected nose is worth about 4 deg adv compared to non-proj. Total adv is 28 deg with 8:1 CR in L28. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afshin Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 I have run the NGK BP8ES at 20 psi for years with no problems. The projected nose is worth about 4 deg adv compared to non-proj My understanding is that projected type nose, since they start the flame deeper in the combustion chamber, they reduce the flame travel and if anything require retarding the timing a few degrees. Also what octane are you using with the 20psi ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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