Guest 240zoom Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Hi TheNeedForZ! hmmm heads off another BMW 6-cyl eh? That's an intriguing idea. I've heard (but not verified) that the M70 shares a lot of parts with the M20, so it wouldn't surprise me that there would be a way. The first thing that pops to mind though would be driving the DOHCs - I bet dollars to donuts that the DOHC head uses a belt, whereas the M70 uses a chain. The chain is driven from within the crankcase, so it'd probably be easier to convert the DOHC to sprockets rather than converting the crank gear to a belt... Can the old V12 be bored out to bigger displacements? (5.0 -> 5.6 or more?) I highly doubt it - the cylinder walls are aluminum - no steel inserts, so I suspect that there's not a lot of wall thickness to play with. How much did your engine cost $1500 CAD + $200 shipping from an auto wrecker in Ontario Why is it that many of the old BMW V12 in the wreck yard are "burnt"? This is what makes these engines so sweet for us: BMW had some wiring problems in the 750 and 950 series of that era, which would cause engine fires, mostly in the upper engine area. Providing the fire was put out relatively soon, the only major damage done would be to the plastics, wiring etc, which is all stuff that we're going to replace (unless you're a real masochist and want to abuse yourself by paying for, learning and using real BMW electronics). The physical engine itself should be fine, again, providing the fire was put out relatively quickly. Hope this helps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mugen405 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Gee' date=' finding one of these engines is hard work!! When I started looking at this swap I had two that I was looking at but when I found out that shipping for them would be more than the engine itself, I started looking local. The closest one so far is a 3hr drive!! Now if only it'll warm up a bit I can hit up all the junk yards looking for one. but me knowing how I am, I'll probably end up just running around all day in the freezing weather because I'm too anxious to wait! I'm starting to think that rebuilding the motor is going to take as long as rebuilding the car ...which now that I think about it should work out perfectly. Interesting how that works isn't it? So the whole point of this post is to one, vent a bit, and I did so I feel better now... and Two because if you know where one of these engines is located ANYWHERE near West Michigan, PLEASE let me know, I'll chase any leads you can send my way! Thanks. Btw: How's the car coming 240zoom? Any progress?[/quote'] I noticed in your earlier post that you had a V12 lined up in Oklahoma. How much were you going to pay for it? Was it a salvage yard or an individual? Reason I ask is because I live in Oklahoma, and if you're going to pass on the deal I might be interested in picking it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 I noticed in your earlier post that you had a V12 lined up in Oklahoma. How much were you going to pay for it? Was it a salvage yard or an individual? Reason I ask is because I live in Oklahoma, and if you're going to pass on the deal I might be interested in picking it up. The engine that I was going after was one on ebay, it was about $450 plus shipping. I dont remember if the engine sold or not, but I decided that even if I went and picked it up I'd still be paying top dollar for shipping. Keep an eye on ebay, every once in a while a good one pops up that you can snag. I found an exotic car salvage yard about an hour from here that has a few of the engines for $700-$1200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Can the old V12 be bored out to bigger displacements? (5.0 -> 5.6 or more?) If your really commited to boring out this engine what you can do is remove the aluminum cylinder barrels and have the engine "sleeved" with steel barrels, you'll pick up a few pounds but gain displacement. The major concern is warping the block when you remove those aluminum barrels, so make sure you go to a good machine shop and make sure the guy who's acctually doing the work is keeping an eye on it. Dont skimp here, you dont want to be ruining a $500-$1000 block! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNeedForZ Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 If your really commited to boring out this engine what you can do is remove the aluminum cylinder barrels and have the engine "sleeved" with steel barrels, you'll pick up a few pounds but gain displacement. Yes that was what I was thinking... How did BMW increase the engine displacement in 750 or 850CSi cars? From what I've heard, all 750's have 5.4L engine while the limited edition 850CSi has 5.6 L. McLaren F1 uses the same block, different heads and is 6.0L(I think)??? If they are not bored out then it's probably in the crank stroke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 If they are not bored out then it's probably in the crank stroke? Or Both... Its really not that great of a leap to get the McLaren engine out of the base BMW engine, especially with the new dohc heads out. I read somewhere that the McLaren guys are working on getting 1,000hp from this engine!! Naturally Asperated!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 So what engine management do you guys plan to run on these V12's? I know there's several out there that can do it (like the Tec3 and Haltechs) but I'm just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Well truthfully, I havn't thought that far ahead yet! but the best idea I heard so far was teaming two megasquirts(one for each six cyls) and then another unit that controls the first two, kinda like the stock BMW unit ...only cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest billyzbear Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 Wow is all I can say. For spark advance you could you a crane box. It's like 130.00 and you can adjust when advancement starts, when it ends and how much advance you want. It also let's you use a map sensor for retard. Also for extra money you can use a knock sensor for pinging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tony78_280z Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 V12TT-Z or TTV12-Z My GOD how much hp/torque you think this will push when you are finished. Keep us updated on this project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shauno Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 240zoom, you're in vancouver or elsewhere in B.C.? I'd love to see more pics of your project. I'm in Vancouver and now feel a little intimidated with my old turbo beast now. That engine is going to screeeaaam. Nice work so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 240zoom Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 billyzbear: Wow is all I can say. For spark advance you could you a crane box. It's like 130.00 and you can adjust when advancement starts, when it ends and how much advance you want. It also let's you use a map sensor for retard. Also for extra money you can use a knock sensor for pinging. I've got dual Mallory VI ignition modules that will be handled by dual MSnS computers (they'll also control the EFI as well). tony78_240z: My GOD how much hp/torque you think this will push when you are finished. Keep us updated on this project! Conservative estimates are around 500 lb/ft of torque, 550 hp with ~ 7 - 9 psi. I may decide to stay unboosted until I get the bugs worked out first. shauno: 240zoom, you're in vancouver or elsewhere in B.C.? Yup, I'm in Vancouver. I've been a bit behind on updating the blog, as work's been hogging most of my time the last couple months. I've also been building up my tool inventory for this project, including a lathe and milling machine (due to arrive in 6 weeks or so). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LT1-10AE Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 I'm definitely keeping an eye on this thread. I'm also planning on the M70 (or S70 if I can find one) swap into the early Z car. Looking forward to seeig more progress. On the transmission side - I'm running a T56 in my other converted car (10th Anniversary RX-7 LT1) so I think the gearing is perfect for a 4.1:1 car. Have you thought about the 6 speed that was optional in the 850Csi? That would give you a bolt up solution. I don't know the specifics about the BMW tranny as far as power goes but for the simplest solution I would think that would be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest forbanger Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 Would the car really handle this motor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 240zoom Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Would the car really handle this motor? In stock form? Not a chance. The first stomp of the throttle would twist that little frame like a candycane. I'll be beefing up the frame with DOM tubing everywhere I can, build a sub-frame for the motor/tranny and beef up the rear IRS support. I'm also going to have two roll hoops tying the passenger area/rear shock towers and subframe together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProjectSR20 Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 It looks like this thread has been dead for a while but I want to know what happened to this motor? I really want to see what that would do in a Z. Anyone have any info? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Bump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeman583 Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I must see this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xx.jason.xx Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I was actually doing some research into the M70 V12 (I have been thinking about this swap for a while now) and you are correct in saying that the M70B50 is two M20B25's with a common crank. The heads are a little different, but close to the same. As far as the engine management, I was looking into standalones and the two that I found that would handle the task the best would be the TEC3 (which from my research does OK(http://www.directignition.com/products/tec3.html)) and the Omex 710 (which would do it better (http://www.omextechnology.co.uk/Ecus/710/omem710.htm)). These also have a boatload of other features as well, like traction control. (and lets face it, with a TT V12 on the street, who wouldnt like to be able to turn that on in the rain?) just my $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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