ZHeadV8 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Hi Guys, My project Z is underway, the plans have all been sorted, the suspension, brakes, etc etc etc have all been gone through with a fine toothed comb (Proflex suspension, AP brakes) and I ordered the wheels today from R&D Motorsports (cheaper for me in the UK to order Work Wheels from the States than direct from Japan). Now the question, borne out of V8 ignorance as we do not have many American V8s here in England : All the way down the line, I have been referring to the JTR V8 swap bible, tons of useful info and have been planning on an Edelbrock Performer RPM engine and T56 gearbox, both brand new from the UK's Edelbrock distributor. They will be purchased at the last possible minute to save the warranty frittering away with the engine still in the crate. Although the old school SBC is tried and tested and the kits and experience are available to fit them, I have been wondering about the LS1. Not knowing one from my a$$ end because they are none too common here, I take it they are aluminium, ECU controlled and probably smoother. How much extra effort is involved with the LS1 swap and more importantly what would be the benefits of doing one ? The standard SBC is by now relatively straight forward as a transplant, the LS1 would be much more complex but would it be worth it ? Would I gain much ? Many Thanks for your views and replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Hmmm... John's Cars makes mounts for the LS1 setup, but I hear rumor that JTR will be making something soon as well, or maybe they have released something already... At any rate, I would think making your own would be cake if you are at all good with fabrication. Several guys here are successfully running the LS1/LS6 in their Zs, and I think it is absolutely the way to go... If I could sell my 383 Stroker and break even, I'd put the exisitng LS1 in my Z when the new motor goes into the vette. As for mods... I'd look into some of the packages out there for cams. I chose the thunder racing kit because of its proven reputation. Obviously you want to get an LS6 motor if you can, but if not, get the intake and TB. Beyond that, these motors are really responsive to tuning... I'd get a copy of LS1 Edit and plan to tune your PCM when all is set... Real easy to make 450-475 flywheel HP! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maichor Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I agree LS1/LS6/LS2, pick any one of the new generation SBC and you won't be dissapointed. The advantages- Computer control. Much better fuel economy without losing lots of power. How much is petrol over there $5 a gallon or something like that? I haven't calculated my mpg yet, but my buddy gets 27-30mpg on long trips. That is amazing considering the car puts down 400RWHP. It is also smooth like you said and very tunable. Too rich or too lean? Just change the programming. The LS1 has great top end power and pulls so nicely. The first few drives on it, I kept bouncing off the rev limiter because it climbs to the high RPM so smoothly you hardly feel like you are at 5800 RPM. Just my opinion and I am a little biased. Some people shy away for the computer controls because of wiring and unfamiliarity. I say those are not good excuses to overlook the advantages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Some past posts have listed all the advantages of the LS1. One of the biggest is a vastly improved head design that flows better than the old SBC's heads. That means you can get much more HP with less cam, all of which means better street manners. Like you said all aluminum block and heads, FI and a vastly improved distributorless ignition. GM sells complete LS1 crate engines, including computer, with what they call a street rod tune. The December issue of Car Craft magazine tested one and it dynoed at 402 HP right out of the crate. $6200 US, complete with a 12 month warranty. The magazine also listed what missing parts you need to complete the engine (it wasn't much). The only possible concerns are cost and any smog laws. It is kind of a mixed bag here in the US what smog equipment is required to be "OBDII" compliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHeadV8 Posted December 21, 2004 Author Share Posted December 21, 2004 Thanks guys, I know it is a fairly naive question to say "which engine" but I simply have nothing over here to look at and play with to make the decision. Ok, so I am two thirds convinced that the extra effort will be worth it in terms of street manners and fuel economy but there are obviously different LS engines, Mike you say I would want an LS6, what is the difference please ? Rather than out and out horsepower, I am looking for a well mannered but brutally torquey engine >400ftlbs, preferably nearer 500. You see Japanese cars running 1000BHP but they never seem to perform as I would expect, there is no substitute for brute force, massive torque and CCs in my book. This car has a $60K budget so I want to get it absolutely right - everything else is sorted, I just have these engine questions left. I take it there are kits available to mate an LS1/2/6 with a T56 gearbox ? Will search for more info on this. Is there a particular recommendation for the "ultimate" ? I personally am not particularly good at mechanics, fabrication etc, the car is being built by an engineer who worked as part of Team Toyota in their World Rally Championship Team - he is exceptionally good and will be able to easily cope with anything thrown at him in terms of complexity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 The LS6 block is a bit stronger with better webbing.. Not a must, but if you are buying a new motor, Stronger is better... Also the heads flow more and the cam is a little more aggressive! You're also guaranteed to get the LS6 intake... The deal is finding one out of a totalled Z06... Then you 405HP with it! As for trannies, Contact Paul at GForce and chat about your tranny options... Since you have a larger budget, don't go with a standard T56... they weigh so much more than justifies the need in these cars! I'm using a Custom Super strong T5 with my conventional V8, but I know that a couple of bellhousing makers are making an adapable bellhousing (Lakewood is one of them I think) that works with a standard tremec setup! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Rumor has it that GM will be offering the LS7 in crate form soon. It is for the new Corvettes. 7 liters of aluminum block V8, 500 HP. With your budget you ought to look into that. Should mount just like the LS1 (I imagine) and would flat rule a Z car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHeadV8 Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 OK, will check for LS6 and LS7's as crates - am now convinced, where is the best place to get GM crate engines in the US ? I can have it conveniently dropped into a friend's container saving me lots of import duty and tax. I have spoken to the engineer who would actually prefer to install a FI, ECU controlled engine to a NA !! He says it is more his home turf and definitely a better way to go. Thanks for your guidance. Now the gearbox - I read on Pete Paraska's site that one of his mistakes was to buy a Tremec box and I wanted 6 speed so opted for the T56. As I will now go for an LS6 or LS7 engine if I can get one, which would be the best box to go for ? My requirements are as little effort to fit as possible, preferably six gears, smooth, strong, close ratio for good acceleration, must fit through the stock opening in the floor pan. Thanks for your help, you have just saved me making an expensive mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHeadV8 Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 Is this the engine you are referring to ? http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?action=catalog_start&catid=3449 Forgive my ignorance but is it not a big block engine ? doesn't that give installation problems ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 No. I am talking this engine Damn search function isn't working again. Someone had posted better pictures and a link to the site that would be selling the engine. (Forgot to mention they just released the Corvette and haven't started selling the engine yet) I assume it is a small block? Anyway if you contact Scoggin Dickey I am sure they will get you the info. They are also an excellent source for GM engines. http://www.sdpc2000.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Unless you go with a custom transmission like the Richmond ROD6 speed or a Custom T56, I just don't think the T56 is that good a transmission, primarely because of the stupid TWO overdriven top gears... I had one in my 383 stroker setup and was never able to use 6th gear. Also, Why have TWO overdriven top gears... 5th should be 1:1... Contact Paul Cangialosi at 561-743-5600. http://www.5speeds.com Creators of the JT5 5 speed He is the guy building my custom five speed and can build you a custom six speed for about what you would have in doing a regular T56 conversion with a better gear selection and for LESS weight, which is the OTHER big complaint I have about the T56... 140+ Pounds NOT including the flywheel, and clutch kit. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 EXCELLENT Deal on a 2002 Z06 Motor HERE: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=973345 Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHeadV8 Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 WOW ! The engine looks awesome - will investigate and see where I can get an LS7 from if anywhere. Thinking about it, it is probably a stroked SBC to make it 7 litres. That is a cheap cheap deal on that LS6 Mike but I would prefer brand new - EVERYTHING front to back is brand new including a custom loom so in effect it is a new car with a 1971 body shell. Do you guys recommend standard ECU units with these engines or aftermarket much more programmable ones ? My engineer has suggested a fully programmable ECU that you can plug a laptop into - he has suggested I can have an economy map for journeys, a track map for racing and a drag map to play straight lines with, essentially swapping at will. I will make enquiries to the companies you have linked me to. Thank you very very much for your help - I will definitely be using an LS6 or 7 now. Any gotcha's to watch out for with the LS engines ? The JTR manual only covers the straight forward SBC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHeadV8 Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 According to the Scoggin Dickey site the LS7 is a big block, so I think I would be better with the LS6........... ? Am I barking up the right tree here guys ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 According to the Scoggin Dickey site the LS7 is a big block' date=' so I think I would be better with the LS6........... ? Am I barking up the right tree here guys ?[/quote'] Chevy reused the engine designations from the 70's. SDP indeed sells the classic big block 454 "LS7". But if you do some web searches, you will find the "LS7" engine for the new corvette. Look here http://www.alnet.ch/corvette/Engines/HTML_Index/corvette_engines.htm Here was the link selling the engine. Says available fall of 2005 http://www.gmpartsdepot.com/store/search.aspx?SID=2& You can get a new LS6 minus computer for $7400 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHeadV8 Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 Thanks Pop N Wood - not managed to find one on the web yet though - the LS6 seems to come in around $7,250 give or take depending on where you go. Are you saying the NEW LS7 is a small block then ? If so it should fit where an LS6 goes. Where would I find one ? used several search engines and have turned up a blank. Fo the relatively small extra cost the LS7 would be a much better lump - would probably have a lot nicer manners @ 500BHP than a tuned old style engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I assume it is a small block, but don't know for sure. I have no idea if it even mounts the same. Suppose to have all kinds of nice things like forged internals and titanium rods. It is a little hard finding precise information on the web. People had been speculating about the engine for some time. I think Cadillac used it in an STS concept/race car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage42 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Thanks Pop N Wood - not managed to find one on the web yet though - the LS6 seems to come in around $7' date='250 give or take depending on where you go. Are you saying the NEW LS7 is a small block then ? If so it should fit where an LS6 goes. Where would I find one ? used several search engines and have turned up a blank. Fo the relatively small extra cost the LS7 would be a much better lump - would probably have a lot nicer manners @ 500BHP than a tuned old style engine.[/quote'] Don't expect the LS7 to be "small extra cost" compared to the LS6. All new stuff, bigger engine, extra 100HP, OH, you'll end up paying for that one! Wouldn't be surprised to see it in the $10-15k range, I bet! Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maichor Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 It also depends if you are going to wait a few years or start now. If you want new, you can build up your own LS motor for less money than a crate LS6 and way less than the Z06 version of the LS2 will be. I believe the LS2 block is now available so you can start with around 400ci and do cam and heads and WOW! What a monster that would be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Correct, the LS7 Motor will NOT be available for at least 10 months. I'd not expect you'll get it even then and it will be quite a bit more than the LS6 Z06 motor... Honestly the LS6 will make 500HP VERY easily, and my LS1 custom built with forged bottom end bits and arp hardware will see 500Crank HP for quite a bit less than $6000. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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