Mikelly Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Soooo Now that I've ordered my clutchkit and am in the home straight for having everything in house to actually BUILD my 2nd V8Z... Here is the run down on what it cost me for my T5 setup Vs a T56 unit... Gforce T5 Custom transmission/ Shifter included - $1840 The rest of the parts were bought through Jegs, since I can't seem to beat the prices and the parts are heavy so the free shipping was a good choice... Links below: Centerforce DF Clutch Kit 11inch #183-DF148552 - $262.99 Centerforce Release Bearing #183-N-1716 - $33.99 http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=2150&prmenbr=361 Lakewood SFI Bellhousing #620-15020 - $329 http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=2141&prmenbr=361 Lakewood Clutch Fork Boot #620-15510 - $19.99 http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=198624&prmenbr=361 Jegs Clutch Fork #555-60101 - $29.99 http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=4747&prmenbr=361 Jegs Dowl Pin Kit #555-22006 - $9.99 http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=85507&prmenbr=361 Mr. Gasket Fork Ball #720-3855G - $13.99 http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=2145&prmenbr=361 Total comes in at about $2550 for everything sans Flywheel, which I got earlier for about $130 balanced with a 53 ringgear and SFI rated as well. Bolts for the bellhousing come with the bellhousing kit, so you won't need to worry about that, although you will want to trim the bottom ring off the bellhousing for an additional 1 inch of ground clearance! This gets you the Certification and torque rating you should need to make Hi HP live in one of these light weight cars, I hope! This is also the same setup we're gonna use in Jim McNemar's V8 Zcar! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolane Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Thanks for the price list. You mentioned that you are missing the flywheel on there, but what about a tranny mount, master and slave cylinder, hose, pilot bearing, driveshaft yoke, etc? I also looked into the G-Force T-5, but ended up going with the TKO-600. I will comment on that since it is fresh in my head... I paid ~$3300 for everything, including Sachs Clutch, bleedless Hydraulic throw-out bearing (pre-installed), CNC Master Cylinder, Lakewood Bel housing, Poly Tranny mount, Blue Printed and Tested TKO-600 (Not RR), Tranny Yoke, a lot of miscellaneous hardware, and shipping. I bought the flywheel from Scoggin Dickey for ~$180. Together this is a pretty penny, but it should have not problems holding up to the power I expect to give it, and everything is brand new. I choose no shifter handle, and will fabricate my own. Supposedly the stock shifter is supposed to be very good this year. I personally felt more comfortable dealing with Gary @ Keisler Engineering as opposed to Bubba @ G-Force. I am not trying to slander G-Force, but I have read that the torque rating G-Force is giving their kits is bogus (coming from Camaro and Mustang boards). I never read about anyone saying that it is the best around... I did here very good things about the TKO's though on these same boards. I did not want to question the strength of my tranny down the road, my own personal comfort level I guess. The T-56 complete kit, equivalent to what I got except with the 450 lb-ft T-56, was ~$4300 for reference. All of these solutions are a lot of pennies compared to salvage yard trannies. I should be finishing up my engine mounts within the next few evenings, but I can say that the TKO fit great into the tranny tunnel of my 72. I have NOT cut or modified the stock tranny mounting ears on the tunnel walls. Plenty of clearance from that standpoint. I wish the shifter was another 1/2" - 1" back, but don't think the location will cause any issues (I am using a small HEI distributor and it is about 3/8" from the firewall, for clearance reasons). Again, I am not trying to say that the TKO-600 is better, it was just a better choice for my own comfort. A little heavier, hopefully plenty strong enough. Joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 30, 2004 Author Share Posted December 30, 2004 Joshua, There may be a Bubba at Gforce, But I dealt with Paul Cangialosi at http://www.5speeds.com...'>http://www.5speeds.com... Every time I've called Paul Cangialosi, he has answered the phone and my questions... To my knowledge Paul builds every Gforce equipped T5 and T56 tranny that runs on the World Speed Challenge and that was all I needed to know... I have had personal contact with three guys running his tranny in WSC (and of which I found on my own through a Viper and two C5 Vette Websites, without Paul's knowledge) and all are VERY happy with his trannies pushing serious (600HP+) power out of his transmissions with NO failures. I already had a master cylinder by Tilton (7/8th bore) with a braded line I used on my T56... I'll recycle it. I thought I put the roller pilot bearing in the list, but it is coming in the Jegs order. I've ordered an Energy Suspension tranny mount... it was $40. My flywheel was previously purchased when the motor was being built, so it was needed for the internal balance on my 383 stroker... I got it on EBAY from a vendor for $130... it is SFI rated and was new in the box. Having had to deal with my C5s hydraulic TO bearing, I've decided I do NOT want to go that route. I'll use a stock T5 slave cylinder that I'll modify... cost is about $30. I did a little research of my own, and bottom line is the Tremec TKO is a Notchy transmission that I did NOT want to deal with. Everyone I've talked to about this tranny who has it, all complained about the break in period and how notchy it is. Pete Paraska told me flat out he would never own another one a while back, and I've driven two Mustangs equipped with the TKO and both were difficult to shift due to the issue. Furthermore, when I called Keisler, I was NOT given a warm and fuzzy when I told them about the project. On the other hand, Paul at http://www.5speeds.com was VERY enthusiastic about my V8 Zcar project and has invited me to come do an event at Sebring when the car is complete... I couldn't hold the guy at Keisler's attention long enough to get to the technical specs I wanted changed for my tranny needs... Your experience with Keisler may have been positive, However Bubba AKA Paul Cangialosi sold TWO transmissions based on his responsiveness, customer service, and attentiveness to my project needs. When he called me at home Tuesday night, I was VERY impressed... He went to the trouble of calling Jim McNemar to get my number, then called me. Bottom line is I got MY transmission spec'ed MY way. I'd highly recommend Gforce... regardless which way you go, I would NEVER do another T56, so in my mind, the Tremec was a good second choice, but the Gforce/T5 was #1 and would ONLY be replaced by the TKO if Paul couldn't deliver the tranny within the timeframe needed. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHeadV8 Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 It's never a good idea to jump in with both feet, particularly when you are unsure of your technical footing like I am but I did a LOT of research on which box to use and noted on many occasions that people did not like Tremec (Don't blame me, I've never had one) because they were "notchy" and took a long time to settle in. One of the many sites I read upside down and inside out before I came across HybridZ was Pete Paraska's and one of the most useful sections for a newcomer like me was his "stupid moves" page, one of which was to try a Tremec. Thanks Pete - HUGE amount of useful info for a newbie. I have had the T56 recommended by a lot of people then further refined by the GForce recommendation based on weight and custom gearing. My mindset is now LS6 / GForce although I have no first hand experience to decry any other products. The WSC guys will not use junk - they will only use the top kit available. I need ask no further questions than that. HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolane Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Mikelly, Thanks for the information. I debated back and forth for weeks about this, especially considering that the T-5 puts the shifter a little further back, where I wanted it. I did at least look at 5speeds website, but never called them. Calling Bubba directly definitely did not give me a warm and fuzzy. I am sure they are an upstanding company, with the following they seem to have. I have dealt with only one person at Keisler, a guy named Gray. Very helpful, friendly, and responsive. I did call them the other day about some questions, and got a different tech, George, and was not very pleased with his shortness and seemingly little attention. If you spoke to him, or someone like him, I completely understand... I also read, and was told by Pete, that the TKO's are very notchy. I am also told that they require a fluid change at 1K miles (I would change the fluid anyways regardless of tranny though) to start shifting better. Through my research I noted a number of comments about notchy feeling shifts for the earlier TKO's. What I remember though is that the new TKO's (TKO-500 and TKO-600) come with a much better stock shifter, supposedly very similar to the Hurst versions. I have been told that the later TKO's are much better, although it is only heresay, as I have not driven my car yet (about a year away I guess). The other big caution I got about the TKO's was about fluid. I guess anything other than Synchromesh (and some Redline product) is a big No No. Supossedly the fluid affects the synchros and can make them swell, making shifting very difficult. The T-5's on the other hand are supposed to shift nice from the get go. The feedback I saw though, albeit probably much heavier cars used for drag racing, was that the trannies would not hold up to the rated levels. I assume (and I know what I get for assuming) that road racing is easier on a tranny than drag racing, as the shock is what kills the tranny. I intend on using this car as a daily driver on the streets with occasional track use... Maybe I am being ignorant, or just hopeful, but I think that TKO will end up working out well. If I don't like it, I will explore the G-Force route. As for your prices and parts list, I only mentioned that you were missing some of the parts so that those reading this later will be aware that the price of a full conversion if expensive...regardless of what tranny you choose. Speed and strength is expensive... Joshua Please follow-up with a report on the G-Force and your impressions after the install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 31, 2004 Author Share Posted December 31, 2004 Joshua, I'll keep everyone posted on how well the tranny works. We're doing two of them and Jim's project will be on the road before mine, so we'll be able to sort them out relatively soon. As for fitment, this thing is TINY and weighs only about 70# without the bellhousing and other goodies attatched. Be aware that GM Syncromesh isn't much more than a motor oil. I was a big fan of it, but stumbled onto the tech info breakdown on it at a site that specifically broke it down.. Syncromesh isn't even a true synthetic, from what the tech data said. I think it was at http://www.bobistheoilguy.com if you want to do some research on oils. We can't use anything but Royal purple DexronIII with the Gforce stuff, and that isn't conveniant for me since I'm an amsoil dealer.... Paul C. told me that he has pulled appart several trannies in the past with the Gforce bits installed and found that Redline had turned to JELLY... Something about the Ester not getting along with the parts and getting contaminated... So I won't be using redline either! Good luck, and The Keisler isn't a bad unit, but I chose the route I did based on the research. Your trans will be plenty strong enough in a 2700# car, and if it isn't notchy, then you have zero problems! Either way, After having personal experience with the T56 tranny in one of these cars, I think we're both coming out ahead of the game. We're getting the strength (More than) of the T56, without the size or weight issues... Less filling, tastes Great! Happy New Year! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 31, 2004 Author Share Posted December 31, 2004 I love Jegs! I placed the order Wednesday afternoon and this morning everything showed up via FEDEX! Geez, after 3+ years without my Z, it will feel very strange having a Z in the garage I can move under its own power! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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