Jolane Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 Okay, I just want to give a warning to people who are considering using World Products Heads. I purchased the aluminum Sportsman II's for my 383 two years ago, when I started the engine and finally got around to installing them ~3 months ago (I had moved, put he project on hold, etc...and also pocket ported them myself). I know they had been sitting a long time, but, here is the problem... I bolted one of the heads up for the final time with the head gasket in. Everything was torqued down correctly, ready for the guideplates and screw-in studs to be affixed. I sealed all the stud threads and started to put them in. I could not get one started to save my life, so upon further inspection I realized that the screw hole has NOT been tapped, it was only drilled! WTF! So after a long process of removing everything, I setup and tap the untapped hole. I reinstall everything again and soon realize that the other stud holes are tapped crooked and not deep enough, so the end of the stud is bottoming out before the guideplate is even clamped. They are also about 10 degrees crooked from normal, most of them. Again, WTF! I was pissed, so I contacted Summit about his problem (who I originally purchased them from). They give me World's phone #. I both left a message and emailed them without a response, ever! I gave them 3 months to respond (that is why this post is late), and nothing! I have since tapped the holes deeper and tried to straighten the holes slightly. I guess i will find out if they hold toegether. Once torqued to 55 ft-lbs, they did seem to straighten out correctly, but there must be a side load on the studs/head threads. I am going to run it as is for now, and probably buid another engine eventually anyways. My point of this long post is to say that I will NEVER buy another thing from World Products if I can help it at all. Horrible customer service (or maybe I should say NONE). I should have and will in the future go with AFR. Hopefully someone else does not have the experience I have had with this manufacturer. Joshua BTW- I also learned that I should mock up everything with both heads from now on. I only used one for all the mockup (checking the valve clearances, pushrod lengths, rocker ratios, etc). Check every screw hole from now on. I know manufacturing mistakes happen, but to never receive a response about a serious product problem is inexcusable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameron Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 Other people have told me the same thing about them........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 I bought a set of sportsman 2 cast irons back in '94 through PAW and they were drop shipped from World Products. I ordered the 72 cc angle plug 200 cc runner heads. They shipped me 3 heads. A set of the correct part number 72 cc angle plugs and a straight plug head. I sent the straight plug head back and a week later got a set of straight plug heads delivered by UPS. I called PAW and they said that my shipment was correct, called world, they said they shipped what they received as an order from PAW. OK, well, Duh, uh, I got a free set of heads cause they are stupid. So, 11 years ago they were about the same as they seem to be now. Of course AFR isn't much better. I ordered a set of 1060's and all the stuff from CNC motorsports on EBAY and everything was drop shipped from AFR. Took 3 months to get them, I ordered intake, head and exhaust gaskets and the offset stud girdles with nuts as usual. First shipment was the heads, no gaskets, no girdles or studs. Called CNC, called AFR, AFR would not talk to me since I bought them through CNC. Next shipment was intake gaskets and head gaskets, no exhaust gaskets and no stud girdles or nuts. Called CNC, next shipment was exhaust gaskets and two sets (4 total) of stud girdles and no nuts. Called CNC, wanted to ship one of the sets of stud girdles back and I wanted the nuts. Was told that 2 are required for each side on a SBC according to AFR. Next shipment was the nuts. So, I'm really tired of calling and I kept the offset stud girdles for my next motor project. And I got it all for $1575.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolane Posted February 6, 2005 Author Share Posted February 6, 2005 Wow! I guess I am glad I am not the only one, but this really makes me wonder. Actually, I did not mention that when I first received the heads, I too was missing some parts (some rocker studs and a guide plate). The heads were also very dirty in my opinion, with metal shavings all over. I realize that an engine builder should clean everything very well, especially cams, but how is someone supposed to clean everything when the valves have been lubed, etc. Seems like I would have washed the lube off in the process, possibly doing more harm than good. The chamber on one of the heads also did not fully cleanup after the CNC pass, so in one chamber there are rough spots from the casting left. Also, a lot of burrs were hanging on where the spark plugs were drill and tapped. Maybe this stuff is common, I would like to think though that companies out there DO CARE about there products and customers, unfortunately World Products is not one of them. So, if AFR is also not a great company to deal with, is there a consensus on who is good? I see AFR used a lot in magazine buildups, and their heads look nice, at least on their website. How about Holley, or Edelbrock? Dart? I am trying to think ahead about the next engine I want to build. I really want to use an Aluminum block, but may not if World is the manufacturer. Donovan also makes a SBC alum block I beleive, but who knows what the cost of that is. Heck, maybe an LS7 would be the best (in the 1-2 year time frame...). I just hope nobody else has to experience the problems I have with World Products... although some already have. Joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 I had problems with my Canfield Aluminum heads for my sbc 383. Competition products sold me the heads and I had to sink 350 bucks into them to make them right. I have run Edelbrocks and have had no problems, the same can be said for your basic Trick Flow heads, no problems with them either. Luck of the draw I guess? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 406_ZDriftr Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 I have Edelbrock heads on my Dodge Dart and they looked great. Only problem was the intake threads were problematic, the bolts didnt wannt go in all the way down and i was using a lot of strength, and i didnt wanna force it in too much, so i just got a tap and cleaned up the threads a bit. I was considering world products for my 406, the Motown 220 heads. But I met a guy who told me from personal experience to stay away from world products, and go with AFR. after reading this, I think I might just stick with edelbrocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameron Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 I have edelbrock heads and I dont like them at all if I could do it all over I go with AFR.... I had a clearance problem with the guideholes and my pushrods and also there is a lot of slag in the runners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolane Posted February 7, 2005 Author Share Posted February 7, 2005 Wow, buying heads seems to be a big deal. Although I am not happy to hear all these problems, I guess I am glad I am not the only one. I felt bad about complaining about the heads, but after not getting any responses, I thought I should warn people of my experience. I personally would also take a risk with AFR's. It seems like a lot of people are using them. Too bad Summit does not carry them. BTW, summit has been really good to deal with. Holley shorted me the wideband o2 parts for my stealth ram kit, and summit had it to me very quickly. I will continue to by from them....well, except AFR heads. Joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 77vegasz Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 I bout a set of the Mowtown 220 cast iron heads through Jegs. I got the correct heads, they were fuly assembled and correct. They bolted on fired up and have been running fine. I guess I was lucky. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 The AFR's were and are a truly a work of art, perfectly finished in every detail. My only problem was getting all the right parts. They make awesome power and torque, the full potential of which I do not know right now. I picked up 6 tenths of a second in the quarter going from world products to AFR's, now that is some serious HP and TQ gain. If I had to do it all over again I'd go with the AFR 227's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Sorry to hear about your head fiasco. Don't buy Canfield heads unless you are sure they are fully assembled and valves done by canfield. A few vendors sell them like that. A few (maybe the Jeg's heads are like this too?) buy the bare castings and then have a shop assemble and do the valve work. I've heard of several people buying Canfields from Comp Products and having them flow tested and being very disappointed. I bought mine fully assembled by Canfield from Thunder Racing Products in Youngstown Ohio (Call Dave at 330-792-2451 and tell him I sent you). My Canfields are beautifully done, and ended up flowing better on the intake side than advertised. The exhaust was a bit lower than advertised, but a quick cleanup in the bowl area brought them up to snuff. Here are the results: http://alteredz.com/data/canf215flow_1.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 I am one of those mentioned as a Unsatisfied customer of Competition Products. I purchased my Canfields from them and they flowed crap! I had Kim Barr racing do a full radius valve job and clean up the bowls and they flowed great after the work. I should not have had to spend 300 bucks more. If that was the case I would buy AFR 210's hands down. Hind site is 20/20! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rick458 Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 No Dirt o DART so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rjdtonto Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Well I see I'm not the only ginnie pig on cylinder heads,,In my opion the best deal to do is to buy the heads you want BARE and let your machine shop do the rest,,,I purchased a set of canfield's 200cc/65 2.055 intake/1.60 exhaust from wheeler power products, teck info seemed pretty good ie yes this will work that wont etc.Well apon recieving the heads,,wrong values 202 no 05 and 215 runners, which they said would be a little big for my compo,K why send them,,back they went,next pair right runner cc but wrong valve still 202 not 05,and the spring cups where smaller diameter than the spring,thus you could move the spring aginst the vavle seal,,,yea right,back they went, the next set,yea right vavles,close on the cc runner(197) had my machine shop check them spring pressure,and clean any metal pieces out,,got a call message said JUNK the springs where measuring different pressures just by checking them ie. it would read 130,,check it agin it read 80,,lost 50 not in my race car or street car for that matter, and my machinist didnt know what cheap valves they used,,this has been since JUNE 22nd so I lost the whole racing season since then, and I still have to have the heads done bye my machinest,,,at least they will be right,,bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Reading that post gave me a headache. jt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 rjdtonto: Please go back and edit that post. I can't tell if you are saying to have buy bare or not, whose fault it was that the heads you received were screwed up, etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jap tin Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 WOW !!! I knew there was a reason I ran Brodix heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetride2go Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 i also hav personal experience w/ world products heads and their crooked bolt holes/stud holes... yep... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Other people have told me the same thing about them........(world products and Competition Products) both have a long list of less than impressed former customers I know of one engine shop that swears they recieved a block from world castings that was partly filled with concrete block stiffener in the water passages and when they wanted to return it were told it was useable and not returnable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Well, I went with a Dart block due to asking around and hearing stories like that. I went with the Canfield heads due to what I'd heard from some engine builders and the flow numbers on the 215s they quoted. As my post above states, the intake flow was as good or better than they quoted, the exhaust wasn't but required only some minor cleanup to get to flow well like they advertised. I priced AFRs and it appeared they were into nickel and diming you to death to get things that were already on the Canfields. $1100 and some change for complete heads that flow great seemed like a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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