Guest bigbadzcar99 Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Hey all, im thinking about going turbo in my 77 280Z. I am thinking about buying a 1983 n/a engine i found for a great price (needs rebuild) with wiring harness and computer and i have sourced a 83 turbo intake, exhaust and turbo. I dont think i would have a problem running the two togather at all, as i have an adjustable fuel press. regulator and MSD fuel pump. My big questions are do i have to run a turbo dizzy? i just bought an xr3000 ignition and lx91 coil, and i would hate to get rid of them. Also, would i need to change out the wiring harness and computer for the 1983 engine swap? there pretty much the same, unless theres a knock sensor or crank pos. sensor or somthing. please let me know, any tips would be helpfull. Thanks all, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Hey all' date=' im thinking about going turbo in my 77 280Z. I am thinking about buying a 1983 n/a engine i found for a great price (needs rebuild) with wiring harness and computer and i have sourced a 83 turbo intake, exhaust and turbo. I dont think i would have a problem running the two togather at all, as i have an adjustable fuel press. regulator and MSD fuel pump. My big questions are do i have to run a turbo dizzy? i just bought an xr3000 ignition and lx91 coil, and i would hate to get rid of them. Also, would i need to change out the wiring harness and computer for the 1983 engine swap? there pretty much the same, unless theres a knock sensor or crank pos. sensor or somthing. please let me know, any tips would be helpfull.Thanks all, Chris[/quote'] The adjustable fuel pressure regulator will help but you'll need a turbo FI wiring harness, ECU, AFM and higher capacity fuel injectors. The NA computer won't have the correct fuel map and won't be able to decipher the information from a compressed air charge to sufficiently deliver adequate fuel. You should try and track down a turbo wiring harness, ECU, AFM and higher capacity injectors. That should be all you need to make it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayZee Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 If you plan on turbocharging a 83 n/a engine then I highly suggest you run a intercooler. Without it, along with the high compression pistons of the n/a engine will spell detonation. The turbo intake isn't absolutly nessessary but is a plus as it has a safety relief valve as well as valve that acts somewhat like a BOV (blow off valve) Turbo's also have bigger throttle-bodys too I believe. Yes you will need a turbo computer as they have a different fuel map and ignition advance. The harness is quite a bit different as well. The larger injectors and AFM are also needed to go with the new ECU On a 83/82 turbo the crank sensor is located INSIDE the distributor, so yes you would need the turbo dizzy, unless perhaps you can find a crank sensor from a 81 turbo car. On the 81's the sensor was on the crank pulley, however you would likely need a 81 ECU to run that type of sensor. Not sure on that one as I've never even seen a crank style trigger before. Of course you could always go to a stand-alone computer system if you wanna spend the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 The adjustable fuel pressure regulator will help but you'll need a turbo FI wiring harness' date=' ECU, AFM and higher capacity fuel injectors. The NA computer won't have the correct fuel map and won't be able to decipher the information from a compressed air charge to sufficiently deliver adequate fuel. You should try and track down a turbo wiring harness, ECU, AFM and higher capacity injectors. That should be all you need to make it work.[/quote'] How can the turbo ECU read boost pressure when it has no MAP sensor? While larger injectors and different behaviour at WOT make it more suitable for positive pressure conditions, this does not mean it is deciphering information about those conditions. I think the best thing to do if you had the money is to just go with a aftermarket ECU.. like haltec and SDS.. or even build a Mega squirt system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z_cars_rule Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 i am currently in the process of converting my NA motor to turbo and was wondering, because i am planning on using a after market ECU could i use the factory NA intake manifold and just weld up the extra bits i dont need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigbadzcar99 Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 O.K... Im gonna try this, let me know what you think. I will run the 83 n/a with turbo set up, i will try to get ahold of turbo intake, if not, i will use mine (pre smog) unless its too diffrent to work. I have 2 intercoolers from a volvo that will handle the intake charge. I have a MSA 60mm throttle body, so im not too woried about the size diffrence there. I will use the stock 83 n/a wiring and computer (for now, unless i build it and it detonates) but go to larger 450cc injectors, they should flow more then enough fuel. My thinking is with the ability to controle my fuel pressure, and with larger injectors i shouldent have a problem at WOT because i will be flowing more fuel then the stock set up. If wigenout-s30 is correct and there is no MAP sensor in the computer, then its kind of a "dumb" computer, and all it will do is change the timing with boost or vacume, with fuel flow still being regulated by the AFM and throttle body. I plan on upgrading the computer but all great things take time. Let me know what you think, maby it will work and i will have a new combo. A little luck wold be nice too!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 The stock NA EFI has no provisions for timing retard under boost, plus any time that larger injectors are fitted a change has to be made to the AFM to compensate for the extra fuel.A FMU could be fitted with 370cc injectors and a turbo AFM could be modified to work with a NA motor.This would supply the fuel for a budget setup.Next would be a way to retard the timing under boost the Crane xr 3000 box could be fitted with a http://www.dezod.com/pd_crane_cams_driveradjustable.cfm timing retard and that takes car of your retard under boost.This setup can be used with your NA distibutor.I had friend who used a similar setup using a Cartech FMU and a MSD BTM6AL it was a bit laggy coming up on boost but hit really hard once the boost came up.Really all you would need is a set of 370cc injectors and a modified AFM with the FMU and a timing retard, your stock intake manifold will work just fine. You just need a turbo exhaust manifold and a turbo.Be aware that a stock N42 bottom end will fail if more than 10psi of boost is run on the motor for any length of time. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7952387318&category=33741&sspagename=WDVW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayZee Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 I have to say that I just don't like the idea of using the stock n/a ECU for any turbo setup, whatever you do to it the setup will be very sketchy. Especially if you try to run 450cc injectors with it. If the problem is locating a turbo ecu, afm and harness you might want to consider finding a z31 ecu, maf and crank-sensor. The z31 setup is likely easier to find, as you can take the parts from different years and models of cars. Even a n/a z31 ecu can be re-programmed for turbo (as long as it's 87+) The z31 harness (n/a or turbo) could also be modified to work in a early Z. MAF sensors from any z31 (or possibly Maxima) would work. Crank sensor disks could be found in any z31, Maxima, Vg30 truck or Pathfinder. The only real catch is that you would HAVE to have a distributor from a 82/83 280zx turbo. Also if anyone is interested, I have a couple of 83zxt ecu's and afm's (no dizzy's though) Oh, I also have a 84 z31ecu (turbo model) I'd be willing to part with it, but I need to get my hands on a 87-89 n/a ecu first. (so if anyone wants to trade?? ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigbadZ Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 O.K. found a 83 ZXT wiring harness and ecu, hey grayzee, i'll take you up on that turbo afm if you want to get rid of it. Ill take every ones advice, gonna run all turbo electronics and get rid of the xr3000 (it kills me, its only been installed for a month!) Just need to find a dizzy and im in buisness. Thanks all for the advice, never tried a conversion like this so there are meny chances to mess up big time. Grayzee, gimme a price on that AFM, gonna need it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 You can still run your xr3000 and your NA distributor if you use this unit to controll the boost retard. http://www.dezod.com/pd_crane_cams_driveradjustable.cfm You just won`t be using the turbo distibutor.or assosiated hookups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayZee Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 You can still run your xr3000 and your NA distributor if you use this unit to controll the boost retard. http://www.dezod.com/pd_crane_cams_driveradjustable.cfm You just won`t be using the turbo distibutor.or assosiated hookups. Perhaps I'm missing something, but if you use a n/a distributor how will the ecu read crank angle and rpm? I assumed the electical pulses between the two setups are not compatible. Am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunan Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 No one has mentioned the cam. Your n/a cam will not have the proper overlap that the turbo engine runs best on. I'm not sure how much power you will loose but I assume you won't want to loose any. Just a thought. Hey grayzee I was wonderding if you know how the 87+ na z31 ecu knows how to retard under boost, or does it not retard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayZee Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 No one has mentioned the cam. Your n/a cam will not have the proper overlap that the turbo engine runs best on. I'm not sure how much power you will loose but I assume you won't want to loose any. Just a thought. Hey grayzee I was wonderding if you know how the 87+ na z31 ecu knows how to retard under boost, or does it not retard. Yes the cam is a consideration too.. I think a turbo cam is more ideal but I'm sure I remember hearing of people using n/a cams, obviously not as good as a cam designed for boost though. A 87+ n/a ecu DOES NOT retard under boost. The air is read BEFORE it goes into the turbo so all it knows is increased airflow. N/a ecu's have a much too aggressive advance curve for a turbo. However what I meant is that a 87+ ecu CAN be reprogrammed to do whatever you need. A retuned ecu will give better performance than the stock turbo ecu anyday.. also with re-tuning you have the option of running bigger injectors and still have precise air/fuel ratios from idle to top rpm. It will also allow to run a engine with higher HP than the stock ecu would allow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigbadZ Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Well, im gowing with the 83 turbo computer but my dad has a friend that can reprogram any computer to do pretty much whatever you want. So im gonna talk to him and see if he can set it up for me. I didnt even think about the cam thing. Im sure i wont get the same power out of the n/a cam as the turbo, but its gonna have to wait for now, im burning through enough cash as is. I think MSA makes turbo cams, so as soon as i get the engine set up and the wiring done and the engine running good, i will worry about that. Had another question, i want to go with a stock T3 with waste gate, do i need to run a BOV on the piping? and where can i get all the piping i need for the intake? It gonna be coustom obviousley, should i have it done locally or is there a company that makes it? i will be running an intercooler, i have two, i dont know if that would be overkill though. thanks all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunan Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Thanks for the reply grayzee, the reason I asked was because I'm running the JWT ecu that is reprogramed but did not think it was retarding and that maybe I could find some more power by adding a boost retard to my MSD 6.? Bigbadz if you are going to run high boost I would not use the Volvo inter, it is the plastic one right? it wont handle high pressure and is also not made for high hp applications. If you are planning on high hp, or high boost you don't want to skimp on the IC. I would definitly not use two as you would be adding to much pressure drop through the IC's. To the best of my knollage no one makes IC pipes, most applications are custom depending on the IC. Yes you should run a blow off or you could run into serious problems coming off WOT. I know what a money pit it can become, quickly, but what cost more doing it right the first time or doing it twice? That brings me back to the cam, if you set up your ecu using the n/a cam if you switch to the turbo cam later you will probably need to reprogram you ecu for best results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigbadzcar99 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 The intercooler im gonna run is an all aluminum piece. I know about the plastic end caps cracking on the other type. Datsunan,thanks for the tip on the BOV, i had a brain fart. Hopefully i can find some one here in the south that can make somthing high tech like intercooler piping. I bet if it was for a 1973 Chevy 1500 Pick'em up truck, NAPA would have it in stock. Sucks being a city boy in the country. I'm planing on running 10psi max, maby a little more on teh track. But im also gonna go with ARP everything, forged pistons and a MLS head gasket. I dont think i will have a problem holding the boost. Build it right the first time, and you wont have to do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigbadzcar99 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Anyone know how much you can boost on stock 280zx pistons? im probbly gonna break down and buy forged, just want to see if its worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Didn't read the whole thread so pardon any repeated info. You can do a turbo motor running n/a electronics, it's been done. With bigger injectors and adjustable fuel pressure, and by tweaking the AFM, you could probably get it to run okay and safe. For the ignition, it's not hard to recurve an N/A, mechanical distributor to not get much advance... better yet, you could get one of the MSD boost-timing-retard units, but they cost enough that you could probably just buy the turbo efi setup instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 If you plan on turbocharging a 83 n/a engine then I highly suggest you run a intercooler. Without it' date=' along with the high compression pistons of the n/a engine will spell detonation.[/b']The turbo intake isn't absolutly nessessary but is a plus as it has a safety relief valve as well as valve that acts somewhat like a BOV (blow off valve) Turbo's also have bigger throttle-bodys too I believe. Yes you will need a turbo computer as they have a different fuel map and ignition advance. The harness is quite a bit different as well. The larger injectors and AFM are also needed to go with the new ECU On a 83/82 turbo the crank sensor is located INSIDE the distributor, so yes you would need the turbo dizzy, unless perhaps you can find a crank sensor from a 81 turbo car. On the 81's the sensor was on the crank pulley, however you would likely need a 81 ECU to run that type of sensor. Not sure on that one as I've never even seen a crank style trigger before. Of course you could always go to a stand-alone computer system if you wanna spend the money. pretty sure it wont detonate, Xander ( after this afternoon) and Pete are the proof of this, hence the compression is absurdly low !!! A turbo to my knowledge does NOT have a bigger TB, but a 240sx swap would give a little more response ( do not expect HUGE improves) If you go Megasquirt you can control the detenation better ( if it will occure) and you wont need a turbo loom ECU, and dizzy, you can run teh stock dizzy.. For info on I however would try to source a p90 head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 If I had to do it all over again I would get one of these. http://www.jspecautosports.com/catalog_product.aspx?prod_id=37 Much cheaper. Add it all up and see what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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