Fairlady Z conversion and stuff

[Hashi]

Hey does anyone know if there is an importer that sells fairlady z motors? I mean like the 2.0 432 r's with the dual over head cams, etc. If not, does any importers sell any other fairlady motors that are available? My goal is to do a successful Fairlady Z 432R conversion. I don't have to have the exact motor but everything else will aesthetically be the same minus the g-nose. Oh yeah, and i want an exhaust that looks like the kind that companies like JIC Magic and like HKS' Hi-power exhaust systems that also has the benefits of theirs and same similar design as well. Is there any out there or will I just have to get like a muffler and fabricate a custom one? I'd probablly have trouble getting my hands on a 432R motor, as well as getting it in...rhd, right? I dunno. Any info will help.

[AKWIKZ]

The motor you are speaking of is the S20. Only available in the 432Z and Skyline GT-R from '69-74. These motors are extremely expensive to buy and parts are just as pricey. An average cost is around $15k for a complete motor and tranny. The motors are very trick, especially for the time, and have the sweetest sound to them. Not a really good road going engine though. In a flat out drag race the L24 from a U.S. 240Z would leave it behind. This is stock to stock comparison of course. As far as availability, I have only heard of one partially complete engine being here in the U.S. Supposedly in No. Cal. The exhaust you are speaking of is a factory twice pipe system. Datsun Competition, as they were called in the '70's and '80's, sold one for the Z car here. I think Motorsport Auto and Victoria British both have something comperable now. Get yourself a set of triple carbs and a nice header on your L series and you will have an engine just as authentic as the S20 as most Z cars in Japan are equipped this way.

Brian

[HS30-H]

....My goal is to do a successful Fairlady Z 432R conversion. I don't have to have the exact motor but everything else will aesthetically be the same minus the g-nose.

 

Aren't you getting confused between the Fairlady 240ZG and the Fairlady Z432 ( and Z432R )?

 

The 432 / 432R never had a G-Nose, and the ZG never had a twin cam.

 

.Oh yeah, and i want an exhaust that looks like the kind that companies like JIC Magic and like HKS' Hi-power exhaust systems that also has the benefits of theirs and same similar design as well.

 

Won't look "aesthetically the same" as a Factory car then, will it?

 

I'd probablly have trouble getting my hands on a 432R motor, as well as getting it in...rhd, right? I dunno. Any info will help.

 

The only thing stopping you from getting your hands on an S20 engine will be the amount of money that you are prepared to pay. Once you see how much it will cost you will probably give up.

As for fitting. the front crossmember will need to be modified to copy that of the 432 / 432R, and you would need to make sure that you found the 432 / 432R type sump and oil pickup if you bought a more common PGC10 / KPGC10 / KPGC110 Skyline GT-R type S20 engine. You'd need to move the dipstick tube if this was the case too.

Transmission would need to be either the FS5C71-A 5-speed with the correct S20-mating bellhousing, or the correct type of FS5C71-B with the whole front section to fit the S20 rather than the L-series mating type.

Exhaust manifold will foul the steering shaft on an LHD car, so you'd need to make a custom manifold.

Radiator inlet and outlets are different too, as is wiring.

[HS30-H]

An average cost is around $15k for a complete motor and tranny.

 

A slightly conservative figure I reckon. I'd say that kind of money would get a complete engine that was in need of a complete rebuild.

 

Not a really good road going engine though. In a flat out drag race the L24 from a U.S. 240Z would leave it behind. This is stock to stock comparison of course.

 

That's not my experience at all. An S20 in standard tune is quite docile, and matched to its correct transmission and diff ratio is a dream to drive.

 

Got any side-by-side data comparison performance figures for a PS30 / PS30-SB to an HLS30U? I don't see the L24-equipped car ( especially in the US market model ) "leaving behind" the 432 over a standing start quarter.

[Tony D]

I would have to agree with Alan on the cost aspect for sure!

I rue the day I made the statement "I'm not paying $3500 for any damn Z-Car with a fancy engine when I can get one just as nice from the used car lot for $2400!"

 

Three years later, I was again taunted when the inspection rules changed and the current owner of that 432 wanted to trade me even-steven for my 73 LHD 240Z Turbo with full flares and all, along with a spare engine, and several rocket boxes full of spares.

 

Thanks to the US Governments' forms in triplicate, and already having them filled out for shipping, I would have done that deal in a quick second!

 

Now, it's a pipe dream unless there is some sort of insurance settlement or lotto winning! LOL

 

The 432R models were very stout engines indeed. I would not be so quick to disparage a factory sponsored racer with well over 240+ hp in conservative tune (on carburettors) against an L24 with only 150...

 

Lets' not even throw in the Mechanical Slide Valve Fi version seen in some places...

 

The Z432R was a badass vehicle, engineered with no holds barred towards performance. It has been said that the specific output was over 150HP / Liter in some engines...

[AKWIKZ]

First off, I think you misinterpreted my statements. I am by no means discounting the engines ability. It was as cutting edge as any Italian engine of the day. When I said it was not the best road going engine I was simply referring to the lack of torque in comparison to an L series. Not to mention it was basically a slightly detuned race engine for the street. A bit more noisy and peaky than the L series.

 

"The 432R models were very stout engines indeed. I would not be so quick to disparage a factory sponsored racer with well over 240+ hp in conservative tune (on carburettors) against an L24 with only 150..."

 

Here you have completely ignored what I said. I was comparing the engines stock to stock. If you want to talk about race cars lets bring out the BRE car of John Morton which was putting down 290hp from the L24. Now, as to the first question of where I got the comparison info. Several years ago I picked up a book on classic Japanese cars. Obviously I can only make out a few things in the desriptions, but the charts are fairly easy. They took all of the factory ratings and listed them. Here is what it showed.

 

The Fairlady Z had a peak of 150ps at 5600 and a torque rating of 21.0 at 4800. The car was also equipped with a 3.9 rear end. It ran the 400m (1/4 mile) at 15.8.

 

The 432 had a peak of 160ps at 7000 with torque at 18.0 at 5600. This car was equipped with a 4.44 rear end. It ran the 1/4 in 16.0.

 

Both cars had the same tranny ratios. 2/10 of a second may not seem like much, but it is. Not to mention that the 432 had a 4.44 rear end. Imagine if the Fairlady had that rear end too. I would imagine the gap would be a bit larger.

 

When I mentioned the price of $15k I was going off my personal experience. When I bought my '71 Skyline last year I was offered an S20 as well. The motor was used but complete with tranny and carbs w/factory air cleaner. $15k was the sticker. Tempting for sure, but not really practical so I passed.

 

Brian

[Hashi]

Thanks to all of you. I am now that much closer.

[Tony D]

"The 432R models were very stout engines indeed. I would not be so quick to disparage a factory sponsored racer with well over 240+ hp in conservative tune (on carburettors) against an L24 with only 150..."

 

Here you have completely ignored what I said. I was comparing the engines stock to stock. If you want to talk about race cars lets bring out the BRE car of John Morton which was putting down 290hp from the L24. Now' date=' as to the first question of where I got the comparison info. Several years ago I picked up a book on classic Japanese cars. Obviously I can only make out a few things in the desriptions, but the charts are fairly easy. They took all of the factory ratings and listed them. Here is what it showed.

 

The Fairlady Z had a peak of 150ps at 5600 and a torque rating of 21.0 at 4800. The car was also equipped with a 3.9 rear end. It ran the 400m (1/4 mile) at 15.8.

 

The 432 had a peak of 160ps at 7000 with torque at 18.0 at 5600. This car was equipped with a 4.44 rear end. It ran the 1/4 in 16.0.

 

Both cars had the same tranny ratios. 2/10 of a second may not seem like much, but it is. Not to mention that the 432 had a 4.44 rear end. Imagine if the Fairlady had that rear end too. I would imagine the gap would be a bit larger.

 

When I mentioned the price of $15k I was going off my personal experience. When I bought my '71 Skyline last year I was offered an S20 as well. The motor was used but complete with tranny and carbs w/factory air cleaner. $15k was the sticker. Tempting for sure, but not really practical so I passed.

 

Brian[/quote']

 

Uh, no, the comment was about the 432R model. (Now whos' not listening?) This is not the plain jane 432! The plane jane 432 was rated at 160ps, sure, as was the L24 at 150.

 

The 432R model on the other hand was a FACTORY EQUIPPED RACING VEHICLE! It is NOT a consumer grade 432. Comparing or even using 432 and 432R interchangably is a SERIOUS faux pax! THEY ARE DIFFERENT BEASTS, and my statement stands on the horsepower rating of the R-Models. Depending on "High Test" or "Regular" gas engines you specified, there were many tuned power levels. Up to 320+ horsepower!

 

The 432 was a Homologation model for the Japanese market, but it was a FAR different animal the 432R!

 

The 432R model WAS available for purchase FROM THE FACTORY and was similar to the Ford Thunderbolt, or any other "Factory Racer" of the day! Go in, place your money down, and take delivery.

 

So don't confuse the terminology. The BRE car was a PRIVATELY EQUIPPED Race Vehicle. You coulnd't normally get one delivered through distribution.

 

The 432R was available by placing an order at any Prince Dealer that handled the 432 line (at the time PMC Dealerships dealt with the "performance lines" that Nissan had to offer domestically. As of 1990 to get parts and service on Z-Cars in Okinawa, you still had to go to "Naha Prince" as they were still the performance dealer on the island!)

 

This is no different than comparing a COPO Camaro with the six cylinder 250CIS base model you got at your corner Dealership in the 60's /70's.

 

Like many things, there were trim levels people simply don't knwo about, the differenitation between GTO and Tempest is a good example.

 

I am talking about running a GTo against a stock 4 cylinder Tempest here.

They are BOTH STOCK! You just had to order the GTO in the configuration you wanted, and you got it if you paid your money!

[AKWIKZ]

Again, you are still ignoring what I said. We were never talking about the 432R model. I was talking about the standard fare 432. And from what I have read, the 432R model did not have a significant amount of power over the regular 432. It was more stripped down for weight and came equipped with only cheap steel wheels in order for the customer to be able to buy what they wanted. The "R" model only had about 15hp more than the base one, from the factory. You mention the F.I. version as well. I can pretty much guarantee that only the factory race teams had those engines and that none left the dealership in private hands as you say. Comparing the 432R model would require moving on to the factory LY28 cross flow head. These were just as rare and are not really indicative of what most people got.

To be honest, it almost looks as though you are looking to pick a fight here. We can keep pulling out random "one off" and ultra special items until we are blue in the face. I posted the data I found to back up what I said, but you insist on bringing up something unrelated in order to discount my earlier staements. The discussion is degrading into the same thing as the "turbo VS V8" conversations. It has lost sight of the original question and is really not going anywhere.

[Tony D]

Nope, no fight picking here, directly on the topic at hand, directly from post #1 originated by "Mr. Chopsticks"(Hashi).

I mentioned 432R model because that was what was specifically mentioned in Hashi's original post. To wit:

"My goal is to do a successful Fairlady Z 432R conversion...I'd probablly have trouble getting my hands on a 432R motor, as well as getting it in...rhd, right?"

 

Don't say people are not listening to what you are saying when in fact, you are off topic here. The question was "to make a 432R Replica". Not a run of the mill 432!

 

And whatever sources you are deriving your information on the 432R horsepower ratings, they are woefully innaccurate. There was a 432 model available that was specifically designed for high octane (racing gas) operation which was available in the base model 432's, but in no means was this a 432R!

 

the PS30SB is a dsignation and VIN coding distinct and available to the general public. While fully tuned racing versions of the 432R were indeed equipped with Lucas-Style slide valve mechanical fuel injection and put out well over 320HP, the more "sedate" base models that were sent out to privateers (like I said, Ford Thunderbolt...) with carburettors and only made around 240 HP.

 

Hashi asked about a 432R model, and that is what we are talking about. 432 engines are expensive, sure. Try finding the 432R versions with special cams, etc etc etc...

 

When I can look at a rocket box full of FI cams from 432R's from a guy who bought one new from the dealer I can only take his word for what he says. All I know is what I saw from personal experience. He didn't run them on the street, because they were "too wild" though the R-Camset he DID have in his Run of the Mill 432 DID make it more peppy than the normal 432 with 160ps...

 

The 432 was a sound, solid, foundation, needing only some cam and induction changes for massive power jumps. Not unlike the RB26DETT in today's Skyline.

[AKWIKZ]

Here is the thing, if I missed the actual car he was talking about, fine say so. Here is what you said though:

 

The 432R models were very stout engines indeed. I would not be so quick to disparage a factory sponsored racer with well over 240+ hp in conservative tune (on carburettors) against an L24 with only 150...

 

I never said a word about the "R" model. Your statement is that I did. All of my comments were about the standard 432, which you even point out. So, all of my comments about you comparing apples to oranges still apply. And on a side note, I would be interested in knowing where you got your info regarding the 432R. If all you have are the comments of an old acquantance then I don't really consider them too valid. Everything I have found about the 432R as it was sold from the dealership never stated that the F.I. system was sold on street cars. Yes the motor could put out serious power, but these were all factory race engines from what I have seen. Granted, it sounds as though you lived in Japan so maybe you have literature to the contrary. I would be very interested to know about it though.

[Tim240z]

chill out guys.....take it offline instead of hogging this guy's thread.....

[Hashi]

...thanks anyways guys...but i really didn't wanna start a fight here, only useful info... but you guys did help out a lot, and the feedback i got was exactly as expected so...thanks!!!