S30TRBO Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 I have been reading about camshafts on and off all weekend long. For my target horsepower would I be better going with one of there off the shelf cams or a custom ground? I'm not that versed on cams where I would know how to figure out what custom ground unless the ones they carry won't help me reach my horsepower goal. Any recommendations on either one? Or is there another manufacturer out there (i.e. Web Cams, Crane) that will help me better than the two I listed? http://iskycams.com/pdfcatalog/2004-05/page176.pdf http://www.schneidercams.com/cams/50.htm Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4everDATSUN Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 im not a pro in the area of cams. but in my opinion schneider cams are the way to go. most of their cams have an asymetrical grind, which is better for the valve train. i called them up and a cam goes for like $175. i believe MSA sells schneider cams. schneider provides cams for many race cars on the west coast and they have a real good reputation. although i have not looked into isky cams as much so my vote is fairly biased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest iskone Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 What is your desired HP? What will the car be for? Isk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 im not a pro in the area of cams. but in my opinion schneider cams are the way to go. most of their cams have an asymetrical grind' date=' which is better for the valve train. i called them up and a cam goes for like $175. i believe MSA sells schneider cams. schneider provides cams for many race cars on the west coast and they have a real good reputation. although i have not looked into isky cams as much so my vote is fairly biased.[/quote'] I will chime in and say that Isky is probably one of the few originators of the Assymetric Cam grind for the Datsun developed by Ron Iskendarian when he returned from the service and started working on R&D in conjunction with E'motive team at the time. The others would be Racer Brown, and from what I uderstand now, Sunbelt. Most Z-Car cam grinds are simple copies of the original Billets Isky ground in the early seventies, which were based on BMW Cams, and were not a real "priority" for the company at the time. Rons uncle took something that looked like it would work, ground it, it performed decently, and it went from there until Ron came back from the service, with his engineering degree, and started working in earnest on the cams for E'motive. Nissan was at the time as secretive about their assymetric grinds and they are today, and even to top competitors in the field of racing was not forthcoming with information on why the cam was ground the way it was. Ron had to work backwards on his own to figure it all out. For the money, I would talk with Ron, tell him what you want, and they will grind it for you on proper billet, with proper profile, for a reasonable cost. The stock of Racer Brown is in the hands of JWT (Jim Wolf Technology) and are excellent cams. Racer Brown was another engineer (see a pattern here) that could actually explain WHY he ground his cams the way he did, and not just say "we did a bunch and this is what worked the best for us"... When Isky and Racer Brown ground an experimental cam, they knew what they were doing beforehand. They were the innovators, not the immitators. Many times you can bring a cam into Ron and Isky, and he can profile it, and tell you if it is a generational knockoff of one of their original BMW grinds. Sunbelt seems to be the latest group of people with a cam machine that have "rediscovered" what Racer Brown knew in the 70's, and what Ron Iskendarian reverse-engineered and knew in the 80's... They are doing things with lower vavlespring pressures due to proprietary assymetrical ramp designs from what I understand. I'm not saying anything bad about Schneider mind you, I'm just stating some facts about Nissan Cam Development. For the money on an N/A engine, I would buy and old Racer Brown Cam, or one from Isky. For a turbo, since the development work Ron did was 10 years more advanced from what RB did in the 70's, I would go with an Isky, hands down. RB did have some turbo cams... But I think the Isky will work just fine given IMO more development time with better turbos and not the stuff available when the first units were out there (580HP at 20.6 psi on a .040 280 engine at 7500 rpms ain't all that bad!) Ron at Isky will tell you all you could ever want to know about a cam, and same for Jim Wolf. Both those guys know their stuff. From what I have seen, Schneider sells because it's inexpensive, and performs decently. For the small outlay of the camshaft proper (the big cost is in the lash pads, springs, and new rockers) I myself would spend the extra $5 (Last Isky Cam I know that was bought was $180 on a CUSTOM GRIND L7/L9 split configuration timed per customer specs.) and get the billett from Isky. BTW I have an Isky cam in my turbo Corvair, too! Now you know why! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4everDATSUN Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 well thats some nice **** to know... but when i try to buy everything as a kit (rocker arms, springs, etc...) which way should i go? i could find everything else, but for decent parts id have to buy from a group of different people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S30TRBO Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 What is your desired HP? What will the car be for? Isk Isk, 400RWHP. For now my 240Z will be used primarily on the street with an occasional trip to the drag racing track. Our local Z club from time to time has sanctioned Auto Cross events that I would like to test the Z performance at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 "but for decent parts id have to buy from a group of different people..." And the problem with buying the best parts from the best suppliers of each individual part is what exactly? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4everDATSUN Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 well im not sayin that,.... but not everyone has everything i need, but like i said i havent talked to isk, but i haved talked to schneider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katman Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 400 RWHP? Now we're talking turbo cams, not NA. In which case stock is fine. Another innovator Tony left out of his dissertation is Don Potter, builder of Frank Leary's "Giant Killer" turbo Z's that regularly beat Electramotive and BRE back in the day. Sadly, Frank was killed a few years ago in a private plane crash as he and Don were beginning to discuss restoring Frank's car for vintage racing. Potter, who was on a first name basis with Ed Iskederian and Harvey Crane, has forgotten more about L series cams than either of those guys. Don's also the one who took over FAR performance from Dolf Von Kersten (sp?) and turned it into D.L.Potter Engineering. However, I'm not sure Don is in business anymore. Tony is right when he hints that most aftermarket L series cams are copies of copies of somebody's mod to an original BMW grind. I'm a Sunbelt fan myself, because I know they've done the most recent original development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S30TRBO Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 I will chime in and say that Isky is probably one of the few originators of the Assymetric Cam grind for the Datsun developed by Ron Iskendarian when he returned from the service and started working on R&D in conjunction with E'motive team at the time. The others would be Racer Brown' date=' and from what I uderstand now, Sunbelt. Most Z-Car cam grinds are simple copies of the original Billets Isky ground in the early seventies, which were based on BMW Cams, and were not a real "priority" for the company at the time. Rons uncle took something that looked like it would work, ground it, it performed decently, and it went from there until Ron came back from the service, with his engineering degree, and started working in earnest on the cams for E'motive. Nissan was at the time as secretive about their assymetric grinds and they are today, and even to top competitors in the field of racing was not forthcoming with information on why the cam was ground the way it was. Ron had to work backwards on his own to figure it all out. For the money, I would talk with Ron, tell him what you want, and they will grind it for you on proper billet, with proper profile, for a reasonable cost. The stock of Racer Brown is in the hands of JWT (Jim Wolf Technology) and are excellent cams. Racer Brown was another engineer (see a pattern here) that could actually explain WHY he ground his cams the way he did, and not just say "we did a bunch and this is what worked the best for us"... When Isky and Racer Brown ground an experimental cam, they knew what they were doing beforehand. They were the innovators, not the immitators. Many times you can bring a cam into Ron and Isky, and he can profile it, and tell you if it is a generational knockoff of one of their original BMW grinds. Sunbelt seems to be the latest group of people with a cam machine that have "rediscovered" what Racer Brown knew in the 70's, and what Ron Iskendarian reverse-engineered and knew in the 80's... They are doing things with lower vavlespring pressures due to proprietary assymetrical ramp designs from what I understand. I'm not saying anything bad about Schneider mind you, I'm just stating some facts about Nissan Cam Development. For the money on an N/A engine, I would buy and old Racer Brown Cam, or one from Isky. For a turbo, since the development work Ron did was 10 years more advanced from what RB did in the 70's, I would go with an Isky, hands down. RB did have some turbo cams... But I think the Isky will work just fine given IMO more development time with better turbos and not the stuff available when the first units were out there (580HP at 20.6 psi on a .040 280 engine at 7500 rpms ain't all that bad!) Ron at Isky will tell you all you could ever want to know about a cam, and same for Jim Wolf. Both those guys know their stuff. From what I have seen, Schneider sells because it's inexpensive, and performs decently. For the small outlay of the camshaft proper (the big cost is in the lash pads, springs, and new rockers) I myself would spend the extra $5 (Last Isky Cam I know that was bought was $180 on a CUSTOM GRIND L7/L9 split configuration timed per customer specs.) and get the billett from Isky. BTW I have an Isky cam in my turbo Corvair, too! Now you know [i']why[/i]! Tony, That was some great reading. I think I will give Ron a call and for the heck of it call Sunbelt too. P.S. You wouldn't be interested in my Twin Turbo Kit for one of your RHD Z? I've got that plus 36 other parts up on EBay now.. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7973765319&category=33742 http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZ240ztt Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S30TRBO Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 400 RWHP? Now we're talking turbo cams' date=' not NA. In which case stock is fine. Another innovator Tony left out of his dissertation is Don Potter, builder of Frank Leary's "Giant Killer" turbo Z's that regularly beat Electramotive and BRE back in the day. Sadly, Frank was killed a few years ago in a private plane crash as he and Don were beginning to discuss restoring Frank's car for vintage racing. Potter, who was on a first name basis with Ed Iskederian and Harvey Crane, has forgotten more about L series cams than either of those guys. Don's also the one who took over FAR performance from Dolf Von Kersten (sp?) and turned it into D.L.Potter Engineering. However, I'm not sure Don is in business anymore. Tony is right when he hints that most aftermarket L series cams are copies of copies of somebody's mod to an original BMW grind. I'm a Sunbelt fan myself, because I know they've done the most recent original development.[/quote'] katman, Thanks for the reply. Yes thats the horsepower I'm shooting for, if I get more great.... Here are my plans in case you missed my other thread: *L28ET (don't know how much over bore I need as of yet) *Forged Wiseco Pistons *Race Prepped 240Z Rods *Port and Polish P90 Head *Ferrera Valves *RC 550cc Injectors *Walboro Fuel Pump *Custom S/S Intake Manifold w/ Q45 T/B *Custom S/S Exhaust Manifold *Precision GT Turbo (no specs as of yet) *Custom Intercooler *Oil Cooler *R200 3.9 Clutch Type LSD (From a Nissan Skyline) *'82 5 Speed *TEC 3 This is just a start for now, lots of other misc parts still to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preith Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 400 RWHP? Now we're talking turbo cams' date=' not NA. In which case stock is fine. Another innovator Tony left out of his dissertation is Don Potter, builder of Frank Leary's "Giant Killer" turbo Z's that regularly beat Electramotive and BRE back in the day. Sadly, Frank was killed a few years ago in a private plane crash as he and Don were beginning to discuss restoring Frank's car for vintage racing. [/quote'] I beleive there was a story about Frank's death, authored by Don in one of the early, if not first, issue of Zcar magazine. The magazine came out in '96?, which would almost make it 10 years since his passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Another innovator Tony left out of his dissertation is Don Potter OMFG! YOU ARE DEADLY RIGHT! I hope he still returns my calls! DLP Engineering IS one of the innovators! ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! A BIG (HUGE) OMISSION on my part! Sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 P.S. You wouldn't be interested in my Twin Turbo Kit for one of your RHD Z? I've got that plus 36 other parts up on EBay now.. You bastard! You are the devil incarnate! Now I know how Ian feels when I danlge tidbits I find on E-Bay in front of him all the time! You are not in collusion with Ian to stop me from this tendency, are you? LOL Right now, I am in Venezuela, and up to my ankles in funeral trip debt, and nephew graduation trip debt, so no goodies for Tony until I get some of it knocked down to a managable level... Good luck on the auction, though, that is a nice piece, and would look good in the 71, 75, or 78 RHD vehicle..... Muahahaha! Why on earth did you sell the Box? I would have lost nuts to keep that. And my friend working in Aberdeen right now would have probably traded you his three Z's and his girlfriend as well as ex wife for that car! Now I have to "cut and paste" you post into an e-mail and send it to him to let him know a Box Skyline was in Md, and he didn't even know about it! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Oh, and in my defense about leaving DLP out of my little book... Last dealings I had with DLP had to be 9 or 10 years ago when he recurved a distributor for me. While I know people who accepted delivery of a custom cam grids from Isky within the last month or so (in the same price range mentioned)... So I claim "most recent memory syndrome"! DLP totally slipped my mind, and I should have known better. Don can be...uh....well, some people take him wrong when they first meet him. I like him, but can see why he is the way he is, and I can accept that. De did not dub himself "The Curmudgeon" from lack of other terms used to describe him by others! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katman Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 The "Curmudgeon"! You truly do know him. I won a lot of races with his engines, but alas, I found that my drivers could not win a race if I didn't enter- because I was waiting on Don to finish a motor. He builds perhaps the greatest motors nobody ever gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 LOL Then you know what I'm saying, and perhaps the issue was better never being mentioned! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S30TRBO Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 You bastard! You are the devil incarnate! Now I know how Ian feels when I danlge tidbits I find on E-Bay in front of him all the time! You are not in collusion with Ian to stop me from this tendency' date=' are you? LOL Right now, I am in Venezuela, and up to my ankles in funeral trip debt, and nephew graduation trip debt, so no goodies for Tony until I get some of it knocked down to a managable level... Good luck on the auction, though, that is a nice piece, and would look good in the 71, 75, or 78 RHD vehicle..... Muahahaha! Why on earth did you sell the Box? I would have lost nuts to keep that. And my friend working in Aberdeen right now would have probably traded you his three Z's and his girlfriend as well as ex wife for that car! Now I have to "cut and paste" you post into an e-mail and send it to him to let him know a Box Skyline was in Md, and he didn't even know about it! LOL[/quote'] 3 days 8 hours left, just think you can pay for it and everything through the Internet and it could be waiting at home, wow what a pleasant surprise that would be Ok a little more temptation: I sold the box because we were building a house and I needed the funds for the "extras" that the wife wanted. I know it was a big mistake and I regret it dearly. I sold it to a guy named Tom in Killeen Texas (71hakosuka on zcar.com). I have tried contacting him many times and he has never replied. However, I did find a car domain page and it seems that he is restoring it completely. http://www.cardomain.com/id/71hakosuka Here is a pic of her before the flat bed came and took her away from Andrews AFB. I got back to the states from Okinawa in 1998 after 4.5 years and unfortunately sold it in 2000. The good news is that I have some contacts that can get me a 2 door box for around $15K. So one day I may have one again. stupid,stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 I run a pair of Isky street cams in the V12. I'm pleased with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S30TRBO Posted May 20, 2005 Author Share Posted May 20, 2005 Well I ordered my cam through Ron at Isky yesterday. He was very helpful, nice guy and had some great stories too. Here are the specs: *Custom Ground *Lift 490 intake, Lift 480 exhaust *290 intake duration, 280 exhaust duration *1/14 lobe center ?? He said this cam will keep overlap down, help increase throttle response, and assist in my quest for no turbo lag. Other than that I'm stoked. I'm also getting springs,retainers and lash pads from him. So the only thing I need is new Nissan rocker arms. He did have a great story on port matching if anyone wants to hear it, not long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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