4everDATSUN Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 btw tony78, i was making my statment directed towards stroker3.0, as you see he posted this thread and does not drive a chevyZ. and i like your point hellraiser, you cant beat the performane and overall enjoyment of tripples, i dont have anything against webers, but mukuni's are excellent carbs. it makes no sense to purchase a 4 barrel intake manifold, just look at the runners compared to tripples. a 4 barrel conversion on a z just isnt right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Norms example is the only one that matters IMO... stock bore SU's and running a 12 second 1/4 mile... what else do you need to know? Seriously they are the best all around carb for a street driven Z yet can still make great power, and are just SO... FRIGGIN.... EASY. I rebuilt a set in like 1 or 1.5 hours? Tuning is minutes. And they do need SO little attention. They may not be able to match tripples for all out top end power (which you'll only get if your motor is built to make that power) but they more than make up for it in all around power and driveability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 my thinking is this. from the track to the street my su's with sm needles are just fine, they seem to pull better then they should {tuning}. case in point a friend of mine has 45's on his 240z with a 3.0 rebello motor {weber carbs} mine, 280z, 3.1 with su's he has head work, more agressive cam and such. at the 1000 ft mark on a track he only has a fender on me. close r/t's, close to the same speed all the way down till that last few feet where i know im lacking power due to head work, it's can't flow. the carbs are not the problem, they can be tweaked on and made to run a lot better. my first choice would be su's second would be triples last and rarely thought about would be a 4 barrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4everDATSUN Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 its my understanding that a bored stroker is far from a stock block. a stroker is made to make power at high rpm's. correct me if im wrong. SU's are nice carbs but not if he is running a stroker. If he put a nice set of properly tuned 40's on his stroker hed be able to get some of the low end back, compared to the 45's. and he would be able to reach the top end that the stroker is going to create...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 its my understanding that a bored stroker is far from a stock block. a stroker is made to make power at high rpm's. correct me if im wrong. SU's are nice carbs but not if he is running a stroker. If he put a nice set of properly tuned 40's on his stroker hed be able to get some of the low end back, compared to the 45's. and he would be able to reach the top end that the stroker is going to create...... Quit guessing and give us some facts please, or read and learn instead of posting. In my experience with the 3.1L build I did (which is bored, and stroked for those that don't know) the webers were very much a necessity. The engine makes power from 2500-6500rpm, and can rev higher. Considering the aggressive cam, 10% increase in displacement, and increased redline from stock, there is no way I'd put stock SU's on it. Despite what Norm is achieving, those numbers are not NORMal with that setup. Norm has done everything in the book to achieve a quick 1/4 time, and a lot of that work has nothing to do with engine or induction choices. I used 40mm webers with 36mm chokes, and it pulls hard from 2500-6500rpm. The engine is fully balanced and could see 7000rpm without a problem, but the owner wants to remain a bit conservative there, which is his perogative. There are no flat spots, or any other drivability issues at all. All the maintenance required after initial setup is a balance once a year or so. Pretty straight forwards. This car will be on my dyno before summer is out, and I'll have some more data to share then. I can say that it pulls at least as hard as my 2.8L turbo swap at 8psi though. (both engines in 240z's weighing within 50lbs of each other) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest norm[T12SDSUD] Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 There is really nothing at all unusual about my setup. Amateur headwork done by yours truly and an open 3.9 rear end with cheap may-pop street tires. The main thing is that I drive the living crap out of it and that's why I run faster times than others with similar setups. Most people don't want to break stuff all the time!! LOL Later,Norm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Norm, you live in Conover? I am probally only 15 minutes from you, I live just on the north side of Hickory, up 321 N that is, wow I didnt know the legend lived so close to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest norm[T12SDSUD] Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Hey that's cool,we'll have to get together and run at the track once I get my engine back together! Later,Norm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here comes trouble Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 The sight of triple side drafts is enuff to make your heart skip and gasp for air but................. My old silver Z EFI set for over two years without the motor turned once.. I charged the battery and momentarily hit the ignition switch to check if the engine was frozen. The next hit on the ignition switch had the engine running immediately....despite the turd neighbor kid had siphoned most of the gas out of the tank over two years ago..Soup up the EFI and detail that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briann510 Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 we have triple mikuni 44'S on our 3.2 stroker. they flat out scream. we have over 2K very hard driven miles on the engine now and they are still in adjustment and we havnt had to mess with them. dont even run the chokes and they fire right up whether its 30 degrees out or 90 and idle right away. we are well into the 12's with the setup. if we dont run the air cleaners and just the stacks you can hear the carbs 10 blocks away sucking in air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 I'm confused about something here... shouldn't a longer stroke mean a LOWER redline? Or are you guys upgrading all the necessary parts to make these motors rev higher? I know the L24 has a higher redline than the L28 doesn't it?? I agree that I probably wouldn't consider putting even worked over stock bore SU's on a stroked highly built motor, but I still say why not consider the big bore SU's? I dont have the flow numbers on them but I seem to remember someone posting them and saying they were well matched to even a 3.0L with good headwork and mild cam? This was way back when though when I still had my built 2.9L... like two years ago before I decided to go turbo. I also agree that Norms times dont have a whole lot to do with the fact that he's running SU's... he does lots of other little tricks that allow him to run those times as well as having one of the earliest 240's which were also the lightest, I think he even said his car is like 2100lbs? But it still makes a good case for what CAN be done and to show that the SU's aren't as big a restriction as some like to think they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Norm, I still think it's unusal. Popping the hood, milling your pistons on your garage floor, pulling out SU dampers, blending the throat of your SU's after overboring them, building your own tranny to get the right ratio's for drag racing, etc. etc. These are the things that most people will never do to achieve the times you are. Plus dropping the clutch at 6000rpm. The reason the stroker I did rev's higher safely is because it was balanced, larger cam, valve springs, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tomr240 Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Regardless of the performance differences between Big Bore SU's and Triple setups on a pure aesthetic value, the triples just look friggin' awesome! They'll turn a few more heads when you pop the hood to show your friends (or the ladies!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tomr240 Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Regardless of all performance issues discussed in this email, my vote goes for the triples. They're certainly not going to be as snappy at low RPM's, and they'll guzzle the fuel. But people don't buy sports cars because they're economical. None the less, how can you hold that against them, when they just look so friggin sweet!! Guaranteed they'll turn a lot more heads down when you pop the hood at the local burger joint or car show. Image isn't everything, but you won't get much respect driving a 12 sec car that looks like a turd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tony78_280z Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 After reading this thread here and listening to all the arguments here it comes down to is... 1> The triples can generate more power and faster times. Dave at ArizonZ even said so. 2> The 4 barrel is cheaper to install, easier to find, more simple to understand, easier to tune and aquire parts for. So if you want a screaming L6 monster then go with the triples. If you want easy to opperate, go with the 4barrel. I still agree with my previous post. I'd go with the 4 barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 There is no need for a triple setup to "Guzzle" fuel either... Depends on your jetting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest norm[T12SDSUD] Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 My race weight with me in the car is around 2420 lbs. I normally dump the clutch at 3500 rpms with street tires and 6000 with slicks, but I haven't run slicks in years. Later,Norm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Norm what dealership do you work at? And what track have you ran your car at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators SuperDan Posted May 18, 2005 Administrators Share Posted May 18, 2005 Ill be the first to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zguitar71 Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 I just replaced my worn out SU's With Ztherapy stock SU's with SM needles and the difference is unbelevable. I drove over to Helena MT (125 miles away) (I live in Missoula MT) for an autox. I averaged 80 MPH with a couple of burst to 100, there and back and raced and went over a steep pass 2 times and I got 24 MPG. I went with a friend of mine who has a 71 240 with a 3.1 stroker with triple 45's and 12.5 compression and a stage 2 (MSA) cam. I Have an L28 with an E31 head with larger valves and the same cam. I can stay with the stroked car to about 60 then he leaves me. I start loosing ground in 3rd while he moves out like a freight train. Before the Ztherapy carbs I could not stay with him at all. I make power to 6000 with the SU's. I think they would be fine on a stroker or the big bore SU's. When I got the carbs I pulled the old ones and put the new ones on, tuned and sinked them in 1.5 hours and have not touched them since and all is well. I do not think I could install and tune tripples that fast. Although they would probably stay in tune as well as the SU's. For absolute power tripples are the way to go but you will probably have to do more than just put a set of tripples on. $600 for a set of Ztherapy's you cant go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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