BlackBeaut Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 Rob, Please do tell Here's the rough idea: Final piece would have extra support webs on the two uprights, but it should work OK. The uprights are possibly a bit taller than they need to be but I did that so it would be fairly simple to change the angle of the diff to ensure good prop-shaft clearance over the front member by just using packing washers. Cheers, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I saw on this website that there was some issues with interference but that was with an R230 which I would've thought would be even tougher to fit: http://www.v8zcar.com/s30z/r230-2.htm I don't have any technical info to add either, just wanted to mention that my R200VLSD (Q45) is mounted similar to yours, in the first pix. That's my page by the way, I was taught that it's not an R230...Anyway, I don't have any pix of my front mount, but it was the only thing I could come up with without losing (any more) ground clearance. I just don't have the front to back bars going all the way back to the uprights. I'm also not using the lower front bar, need to add that one day. Remember to save room for your parking brake cable if you're using it. I think my mustache bar holes are too low, my diff flanges hit the control arms-no wonder my car would stall when rolling at idle speed. I've taken out the upper washer on the mustache bar but no good...I may switch to something like Terry's as a "while I'm at it" project. Your mounts and everything look cool, but the machining must be expensive, why not go to a mount like Terry's and engineer in some compliance for your rear diff mounting? Would be a lot cheaper in my opinion. You asked for free 3D software, I think Blender is really popular. Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 I've been told on this forum that those are not R230's, either... but the rest of the world seems to think they are. The hump on the front top area towards the nose points out that the ring must be bigger than the R200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S15 200sx owner Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 I've been told on this forum that those are not R230's' date=' either... but the rest of the world seems to think they are. The hump on the front top area towards the nose points out that the ring must be bigger than the R200.[/quote'] Hugh, what diffs are you refering to here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsquared Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Q45 diff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Why not use delrin for bushing material. NVH (hope I'm using this term correctly) is generally marginally more than polyurethane (from what I've read and heard), but there is far less compliance and there is far less friction. Plus, you can get delrin stock for a decent price at TAP plastics I believe, and mill it easily to your application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S15 200sx owner Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Why not use delrin for bushing material. NVH (hope I'm using this term correctly) is generally marginally more than polyurethane (from what I've read and heard), but there is far less compliance and there is far less friction. Plus, you can get delrin stock for a decent price at TAP plastics I believe, and mill it easily to your application. Marginally more what? softer, harder? Sounds interesting please give more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeaut Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 Marginally more what? softer, harder? Sounds interesting please give more info. Delrin is quite a lot harder than polyurethane (at least the poly we get in our bushings) so there will be more NVH. It does make an excellent compromise material between poly bushes and full rose/heim joints (whatever you want to call them). It's also incredible easy to machine, so banging out a set of bushes on a lathe is a breeze. There are also various Nylon compounds that could be considered as well. Dave at Arizona Z is offering some nylon inner bushes for is control arms. Just another decision to make eh!! Cheers, Rob (carefully avoiding the R200/R230 debate again!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S15 200sx owner Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Delrin is quite a lot harder than polyurethane (at least the poly we get in our bushings) so there will be more NVH. It does make an excellent compromise material between poly bushes and full rose/heim joints (whatever you want to call them). It's also incredible easy to machine' date=' so banging out a set of bushes on a lathe is a breeze. There are also various Nylon compounds that could be considered as well. Dave at Arizona Z is offering some nylon inner bushes for is control arms. Just another decision to make eh!! Cheers, Rob (carefully avoiding the R200/R230 debate again!)[/quote'] Thanks dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Delrin is quite a lot harder than polyurethane (at least the poly we get in our bushings) so there will be more NVH. It does make an excellent compromise material between poly bushes and full rose/heim joints (whatever you want to call them). It's also incredible easy to machine, so banging out a set of bushes on a lathe is a breeze. There are also various Nylon compounds that could be considered as well. Dave at Arizona Z is offering some nylon inner bushes for is control arms.) Delrin is okay but not that great of a bushing material (poor impact strength and shatters when cold). Nylon expands and contracts a lot with humidity. A better choice would be one of the UHMW plastics. Very hard to machine. A couple of people used to make TC rod kits with steel cups and UHMW balls that lasted forever. It would be a good option for the rear bushings. Or if you decided to do something trick you could use Ford tie-rods instead of heims. A standard bridge reamer is the same taper. This will get you a solid joint that articulates and will hold up well to dirt and grime. It's an old streed rodders trick. Ford tie rod ends can be had for less than $10 a piece. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeaut Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 Delrin is okay but not that great of a bushing material (poor impact strength and shatters when cold). Nylon expands and contracts a lot with humidity. Hmmm' date=' thanks for the info Cary, it's not something I'd heard about Delrin or Nylon. They're used quite a lot over here (where it tends to be cold and wet ) It might just be that the sort of people who use them, track cars etc., keep their cars in a better state of maintenance than ordinary Joe and accept the need to replace bushings on a more regular basis. Or if you decided to do something trick you could use Ford tie-rods instead of heims. A standard bridge reamer is the same taper. This will get you a solid joint that articulates and will hold up well to dirt and grime. It's an old streed rodders trick. Ford tie rod ends can be had for less than $10 a piece. Do you have a pic or link to what you mean Cary? I'm suffering a little from transatlantic misinterpretation on this. Cheers, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Do you have a pic or link to what you mean Cary? I'm suffering a little from transatlantic misinterpretation on this. Sorry, I forget that some of this may not translate too well. A bridge reamer is probably best explained here http://www.nutty.com/reamer.html. It just so happens the standard 5/8 bridge reamers tapered section matches the Ford tie-rod end taper. So instead of heims at the end of the suspension you use tie-rod ends and tapered holes. Very similar to the front suspension on a BMW where they use balljoints for the inner pivots. Probably not as good as a heim but will last forever on the street. Just an option. Hopefully this helps. I have some pictures but I can't figure out how to make this forum post them. Maybe I'll put them in my gallery and give you a URL. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeaut Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 Probably not as good as a heim but will last forever on the street. Just an option. Hopefully this helps. I have some pictures but I can't figure out how to make this forum post them. Maybe I'll put them in my gallery and give you a URL. That would be cool if you can Cary' date=' always interesting to see if it sparks some ideas. Little update at my end. I picked up the bushing caps I had a local engineering firm make for me. Thought I'd splash out on these rather than bodge something together myself. I'm pretty pleased with them! [center'] [/center] Also got the tubing for the rear section delivered today so it looks like I really need to learn how to weld PDQ! Once that's made up I need to decide whether or not to use the stock front crossmember or make something up, kinda tempted to home brew it as at least it won't be rusting immediately Cheers, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S15 200sx owner Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 They look bloody good Rob, nice one, i am guessing that you will weld these to your fabricated steel tube frame? Cant wait to see this come together. Clint T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeaut Posted June 21, 2005 Author Share Posted June 21, 2005 They look bloody good Rob' date=' nice one, i am guessing that you will weld these to your fabricated steel tube frame?[/quote'] Yep, the small square nub on the top is designed to just fit inside the 30x30x3mm tube I'm using so it will align itself perfectly, and also hopefully make the welding a bit easier as it would be a sod to clamp up otherwise There's also plenty of meat on the lower part to weld the fore/aft 50x25mm tubes to. Cheers, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S15 200sx owner Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Hows your progress here Rob? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeaut Posted July 5, 2005 Author Share Posted July 5, 2005 Hows your progress here Rob? Slow to none existant unfortunately Life has been getting far too much in the way. I have finalised my plans/dimensions though and got around to chopping up some metal for the rear section. I've also destroyed a set of moustache bar bushes on my lathe trying to get them down to the size I want. Machining polyurethane is a bitch! I haven't been able to locate any off the shelf bushes that are the right size either so I've ordered a bit of Delrin, it'll do for the time being. Getting real close to needing to learn to weld!! Cheers, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I was just looking at your previous drawings and I wanted to ask about something Rob. I see you haven't lined up the top bar with the end bars. In your previous pictures you show aluminum (?) bushings locating this whole subframe in the car where the original mustache bar bolted in, then that top bar in your new subframe actually rides below the frame, so presumably there would be a gap all the way across the frame rail of 10 or 12 mm or so. Wouldn't it be better if that top bar sat right on the frame rail? I know it would still be rigidly mounted either way, but it seems that in the drawing all the stress ends up at that 1st weld between the original mustache bar mounting points and the horizontal bar that goes all the way across the top. If you raised that horizontal bar then that whole frame rail will share the load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeaut Posted July 5, 2005 Author Share Posted July 5, 2005 Yep the main bar will sit flush against the frame rail, fear not. It appears (on my car at least) that the frame rails that the moustache bar mounting points are on are actually 15mm higher than the frame rail the subframe mounts to, so I've designed with that in mind and the two short vertical end pieces will stick up 15mm above the top of the main cross piece. Not quite sure why Datsun decided that the moustache bar mounting points would be at a different level to the subframe mounting points but it's too late to convince them otherwise Hopefully that makes sense, alas it's chucking it down outside so I'll not be stepping out to take a pic to show you what I mean at the moment. Cheers, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S15 200sx owner Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Slow to none existant unfortunately Life has been getting far too much in the way. I have finalised my plans/dimensions though and got around to chopping up some metal for the rear section. I've also destroyed a set of moustache bar bushes on my lathe trying to get them down to the size I want. Machining polyurethane is a bitch! I haven't been able to locate any off the shelf bushes that are the right size either so I've ordered a bit of Delrin' date=' it'll do for the time being. Getting real close to needing to learn to weld!! Cheers, Rob[/quote'] Yeah life gets a bit like that eh! Did you try sticking the bush's in the freezer overnight before machining? Have heard that makes a difference. When you weld that frame up, that top member will warp downwards on the outer ends a little, pretty hard to avoid no matter what you do really, it would pay to tack weld the whole thing together first before fully welding. That way the outer ends will be braced by the diagonal member that you will have in there. Clint T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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