VG33E - turbo potential?

[260DET]

Looking at this Pathfinder engine as an alternative to a VG30ET, hard to find a low mileage one of those.

 

VG33E bore 91.5mm x stroke 83mm, 8.9:1 compression ratio. So I'm thinking with that CR it could handle a turbo and being way oversquare should rev well. Or is the CR a bit too high for say 15psi boost? Some info on the VG33E here

http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~radare/wserieschanges.html

 

Looking for a minimum of 400rwhp @ 6500rpm, MoTec ECU, IC, single BB turbo and so on, for circuit racing use. Alternatively the VQ30DET is readily available, problem with those is they are all auto trans, no manuals and no solid info around as to how practical it is to fit a gearbox to one.

[mtcookson]

I believe this engine is used often in high power upgrades from the VG30ET. In my opinion, that compression ratio isn't bad for boost. You'll keep your low end power and have even more power throughout the entire range when adding boost compared to dropping the compression.

 

If you're wanting to run extremely high amounts of boost you might need to drop the compression and get forged pistons and whatnot. Depending on the turbo you get 15 psi should be fine on the engine. In the end its all in how well you tune it. Get enough fuel to it and it should handle it pretty well.

 

 

If you're definitely wanting the peak power output to be higher in the rpm's your best bet would be the VQ engine. The VG's don't make much power up high most likely due to the SOHC design. The VQ should have a bit more peaky power band compared to the VG. You should be able to bolt the Z33 6-speed to the VQ30 but I'm not positive. Pretty sure some guys have done that though.

[Guest Jason84NA-T]

Danny Muir would be the "expert" on VG33 building. I only know what I have picked up from talking to people and looking at pictures. There are many things required to get them to fit as a VG30 would (at least in a Z31) The oil pickup tube has to be modified, the oil supply hole to the turbo has to be drilled, etc. The VG33 oil pump actually puts out more pressure than the VG30ET (and even the turbo automatic) does.

 

As far as outright power goes there is little to no advantage to running a VG33E(T) over a VG30E(T) unless you buy forged internals (sure, it has slightly larger (hence stronger) ring lands, but they are still similar cast pistons) because they have about the same power potential otherwise. The big advantage is torque, especially in lower RPM. The VG33 uses almost exactly the same heads, so it is forced to breathe through the same ports and hence suffers in the same way the VG30 does, except moreso. This is why you won't make 10% more power with the 10% more displacement without doing some head work. With properly ported heads, a good valve grind with backcutting both intake and exhaust valves, appropriate cams and a good tune both of the engines will make power right up to 7000RPM.

 

The compression ratio is not a problem. 9:1 is not all that high for a turbo engine nowadays anyway. When I first turbocharged my Z31 it was on a stock 84NA engine and 85T ECCS. The only thing that's of concern is the timing being overly agressive for 9:1 compression and 7PSI, at the time my solution was to back out base timing with the distributor, but with an 88-89 NA ECCS and romulator, that problem is now extinct. More (old) information on the turbo conversion page of my website.

 

So considering your options and the price of engines, if you are not planning on forged pistons the VG30 is actually a better deal at typical yard prices of $400 compared to $1000+ for the 33.

[260DET]

Thanks, very useful info thats helping the decision making process Wonder if a BW world class gearbox could be adapted to the VQ engine?

 

Great site of yours there Jason, glad to see someone interested in suspension.

[mtcookson]

i wouldn't wish borg warner products to anyone... but its all personal preference. i've never had luck with any borg warner product and would never put anything of theirs on my car ever again. i've dealt with 5 of their shitty fwd trannies in the Maxima and the T5 in my brother's turbo Z isn't in the greatest working condition.

 

You should be able to put whatever gearbox you want on the engine though. It'll just require either a custom bell housing or a conversion plate.

[slownrusty]

Steve Mitchell who works at Nissan Motorsports has a VG33ET in his absolutely beautiful Z31. As he is very talented and also works for Nissan Motorsports and has great ties in the automotive industry, his car is built to a degree that is quite dizzying.

 

Speaking with a few folks that have driven his car (Dave Coleman from Sport Compact Car), they all agree that it is probably THE fastest street car they have EVER driven. The estimation is 500+ at the wheels.

 

He does have alot of trick work done to the VG33, which is mostly hush hush stuff....but evidently the ingredients and the recipe work perfectly together.

 

Yasin

[Careless]

chiming into this old thread here... i'm going to be using some of 88sinZ's advice from Z31Performance and putting a VG33E into my Z31, as the oil control rings on my Z31 are far too gone.

 

Not really a huge shame though, as I'll be able to put everything I put on the Z31 onto this puppy.

 

I got some pics here: http://www.rb30de.com/vg33e/

 

and I'll be taking apart the oil pump and rear plate and putting the engine on my table later today so that I can access the rear easier and then paint it with RustBullet so it will never rust as bad as it did (before I took these pics) again.

[HowlerMonkey]

The VG33ER is already set up for boost.

[thehelix112]

This is very interesting. Please keep us updated.

 

Dave

[260DET]

Reading somewhere the other day that the 33 block can take a big overbore to increase the capacity by a fair amount. Would have liked to use the 33 in my 280ZX but, due to doubts about the cast crank in a high performance situation, went with a VG30DET instead.

[Careless]

the cast crank can take quite a bit of abuse... if you're looking for more than 500hp, switching to a z32 crank and having the snout ground out may be the best option, as you can get a vg33 to a healthy 3.7 from what i've been reading too.

[260DET]

Yeh I could never get solid info on what it took to fit a forged DE/DET/DETT crank and while the cast crank is supposed to be good there has to be a reason why Nissan did not cast all their cranks. A 3.7 would be great, I'd get the block checked first to be sure it can be safely overbored to that though.

 

At 3.7 you would have to get as much power as from the 3 liter four valvers one would think, cheaper and lighter too.

[Careless]

The bearings for all the VG engines seem to be the same.

 

If you order bearings, they work for VG30/33E and VG30DETT. I think the snout needs to be turned down to 28mm and the oil pump drive re-ground to a different shape and possibly welded.

 

and you would need an interesting clutch and flywheel combo to work too... being that TT is 8 and all E's are 6 bolt crank registers.

 

I've just found out that I have a nasty piston ridge on my block, so I'm going to order some Federal Mogul or ITM pistons to make sure there are no issues. I'm going to find the largest overbore, which I think is 1mm, for the aftermarket cast pistons.

 

And I might as well replace the bearings while i'm there! (might as well, might as well never have gotten into this mess)....

 

The SOHC engines develop more torque and are severely under-estimated, and are just as capable as the DE motors. And parts are cheaper and you have to buy less of everything if you decide to do some head work.

 

I love the torque on the 3.0... I'm curious to see what this fresh new VG33.5 is going to feel like. Probably won't notice it too much, but that's 10% more displacement, and with the Z31 cams it should wake up a bit and relieve the city-driving torque drop from the light-weight flywheel, perhaps?

 

As long as this friggen thing doesn't drink oil, I'll be happy.

[HowlerMonkey]

I think I read a while back that there were harder and softer bearing material.

 

The difference being engines destined for car or truck.

 

I read it somewhere but it might not be true.

[Careless]

IF I DO replace the bearings, they will be Calico Coatings CT-1 VG30DETT Bearings as they fit apparently. They can be had for 200 bucks from Eric's Performance Parts on ebay, whereas they were 320 when I bought them for my RB30 (same bearings!)

[260DET]

Harder bearings are best for a high performance application, softer for a daily driver.

 

I've been trying for ages to get a cheap VG33 to play with, I have a TT crank just waiting to be popped in.

[Comrade_Charlie]

I think I read a while back that there were harder and softer bearing material.

 

The difference being engines destined for car or truck.

 

I read it somewhere but it might not be true.

 

I heard z32 people use z31 bearings as a upgrade... I know my orignal bearings had 245k on them and they wernt beaten they were worn down bad, I havnt pulled man high milage engines apart so I dont know if thats good or not. but 245k non the less isnt bad, who knows how it was ran before I got it, I put a hard few thousand miles on it before 245k.

 

drive it like you stole it. Crank was scratched up pretty bad, but being broke and just replacing bearings and not rings/headgaskets too, I threw in new bearings and its at 265+ milage and no knocking or ticking. but the rings are gone in it now so it shoots oil all over my hood out of the valve cover by just blow by, still pulls strong at 10psi.

 

VGs are highly unestimated(l28s are too, in other places than this forum:D). they just wont die, ive seen so many vgs running bad, but never any that just wouldnt start. its my favorite engine, the l28 is second, I would like the l28 if it was timing belt without that timing chain cover crap.

 

I got 2 vg33e's, pain 150 for one, and paid 300 for the other, it was attatched to a 98 pathfinder that I drove 7 hours home after it was wrecked.

[Comrade_Charlie]

chiming into this old thread here... i'm going to be using some of 88sinZ's advice from Z31Performance and putting a VG33E into my Z31, as the oil control rings on my Z31 are far too gone.

 

Not really a huge shame though, as I'll be able to put everything I put on the Z31 onto this puppy.

 

I got some pics here: http://www.rb30de.com/vg33e/

 

and I'll be taking apart the oil pump and rear plate and putting the engine on my table later today so that I can access the rear easier and then paint it with RustBullet so it will never rust as bad as it did (before I took these pics) again.

 

I got mine out of a van also, a 99 villager, it was kinda rusty too, some rust on 2 of the intake valves, and some rust in 2 or 3 of the cylinders, it was leaning to one side, but I dont care since im boring it out to 97mm or whatever im doing. Mine didnt have the intake on it when I got it.

[Careless]

Figured I'd give this an update.

 

So I built it. I have completed my Z31 VG33 Quest motor. This was more of a forced-build, as I always wanted to build an engine... but in this case it was either build an engine or sell the car. And then it went from "october you gotta get the car out of the garage" to "in september, the house is going to be sold, so you need to move".

 

Sucks, but when you want something done fast, you pay more money. SO here is what I ended up with:

 

 

It is currently set up as follows:

 

1999 OWO Casting Nissan Quest VG33 Block

Late Model H1113CT 0.75mm Ovesize Federal Mogul Sealed Power Cast Hypereutectic pistons with new piston dome and skirt coating and snap-locks (different from the build I am following, which is Chris86NA2T's build).

Stock VG33 Crank. Ground 0.25mm over and well within factory specs, Nitrided, Polished journals.

ACL Race Oversized 0.25mm Main and Rod bearings without flash coatings.

1.0mm Top and Oil Expander Support rings to close the gap that the 0.75mm rings left (way too large)

0.75mm Second and Oil Expander rings.

Stock Forged VG33 Rods (same or similar to VG30 W series rods).

Rotating assembly balanced without balancer and flywheel.

Fidanza Flywheel and Aftermarket pressureplate zero-balanced.

VG33 head, ported intake, ported and polished exhaust, polished combustion chamber.

Z31 cams, lifter plates, lifters, rocker arms, and rockers.

VG33 valves, valve springs, and retainers (newer and cleaner than my pitted VG30 ones).

VG33 timing belt, cam gears, and timing sprocket.

VG33 Quest oil pump (go with the Pathfinder oil pump if you have a late model alternator bracket).

VG33 Pathfinder Oil Filter housing adapter (hangs off driver side of oil pump, can't use quest version... too long and will hit subframe).

Ported VG33 heads with regrinded valves and valve seats.

Stanza Throttle Body.

Professional Products FPR with custom feed lines.

modified Z31 turbo pickup tube and oil pan.

Z31 lower intake.

Z31 injectors and fuel rail.

custom hardpipe for coolant to the turbo line due to stanzas throttle body line being in a different position.

modified Z31 hardpipe mounting bracket.

Z31 upper timing cover (which I wanted to redo, since the primer I used is incompatible with the engine enamel and it cracked all over, but you can't tell and I'm tired of repaints).

VG33 lower cover, which has the cut-out for the side-mounted filter housing and an extended pulley debris-protection shield at that base.

VG30ET water pump with VG30ET water pump pulley.

Lines up about 0.5-1mm off from the VG33 crankshaft pulley. Not even worried about it. I'm sure when the bolt is torqued on the crankshaft pulley it will be pushed back and it will line up perfect or close enough.

Mostly Nissan VG33 and VG30ET mixture of gaskets and whatnot. OEM where possible or critical, especially headgaskets (which are bored enough to fit even more than a 1.0mm overbore).

 

I'd like to show my appreciation to 1fastS13 who just clued me in on my oil-feed line hole... glad it wasn't blanked off like his, and Chris86NA2T for answering some questions in a speedy fashion, as well as Racinjitter and Beck for being mentors and great sources of information and parts that I'd be otherwise somewhat embarrassed to ask on a forum without getting flamed, since this is my first 100% complete engine build being done by myself and not under the direction of others. 88sinZ also gets honourable mention for posting his findings on the VG33 and pictures of his modifications on Z31p.

 

I hope I didn't forget anyone, but thanks anyways.

 

I can post more details if anyone is interested, but I'll be moving around and putting the finishing touches on the car to get it insured and mobile, so I may not be back in here as often as I'd like.

 

As for how it feels... at 2000rpm if I just lightly jab the throttle about an inch, the car will shoot to 5000rpm in an instant. This is, of course, under no load and in the driveway. I think the increase in bore size and the lightweight flywheel (which is now balanced... it was 3 grams out) make this engine very responsive.

 

I've still got power steering to address, and I have to run the motor for a while with no boost... but so far, even with the over-sized rings for the top and expander rings, it seems to burn absolutely no oil.

 

The first oil change was grimey... All the comp-cams break in lube, crank/cam guard, assembly lube, moly lube, and fuel from priming the system and having the distributor out 180 degrees made it somewhat murky... but it was relatively clean. It's been purged with fresh conventional oil and I hope to have the exhaust on tomorrow and adjust the Fast Idle control so that I can take her for a spin.

 

Video is being uploaded to youtube right now.

[Careless]

Video Here! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1y9GgUOzsc