slownrusty Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 I have done extensive testing on several of those Mk3 Supra Intercoolers and in my opinion I would not even bother attempting to put one in a Z. If you are going to go through the effort of such a big install (because we all know its a pain in the ***), get a decent intercooler from the get go. Do it once, do it properly and have no regrets. Here is some comparisons for you taken at my house: MR2 Supercharged Right vs Supra Mk3 Left NPR in my ZX vs the Supra Mk 3 Starion vs. Supra Mk 3 The Mk3 Supra IC I did all my testing on - refinished by me: Yasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sotek75 Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 The feedback is great, the ebay bar and plate I/C looks like a really good deal for the long run. Unless something really nice turns up at a yard, (MKIV etc.) I'm thinking that might be the way to go now, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I don't have the numbers on the buick I/C handy, sorry it's in the trunk of my wife's car... she got an extra 5hp just from having it back there Seriously though, it's a hefty unit, very thick, with large inlet and outlet. ScottyGNZ praises them very highly, as I said they are supposed to be good for something like 400hp. The one popular mod on them is to cut off one of the inlet "necks", to replace it with a slightly larger one. For now, I can give a link to one that's being sold on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BUICK-GRAND-NATIONAL-NOS-INTERCOOLER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6763QQitemZ7993736259QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW I'm posting from work so that's the best i can do right now... don't have a lot of time whenever I'm (rarely) ever at home. But I'll try to check on the shipping cost for you POSTM, I imagine it'll be $20-30 as it's a pretty heavy piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 73Turbo240z Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 No ruffled feathers here. I have not heard too much about the buick intercooler. Do you have any numbers on how big it is? Just wondering how it would compare to a npr, starion, volvo, and etc... not worth the trouble on an L block... they hung the intercooler in front of the belt assembly on the GN's with a scoop below the air line into the air flow that went underneath the car, the whole setup is built GN specific and would be very hard to adapt to a Z that is running anything except a GN motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 The physical size of an I/C is not the best indicator of how efficient an I/C is. My advice to people looking to use an OEM I/C for a turboZ is this: If the engine that this I/C was designed for makes the same or less HP than a stock L28ET, you do not want it unless you think the factory over-designed it with 50-75% available efficiency (yea, right). The exception to this are the big diesel I/Cs. Here is what I mean. The stock L28ET is rated at 180hp and the Starion was rated at 164hp. You already know the Starion has some backpressure at stock boost, so how efficient is that I/C going to be when you want to pull 250-275hp out of the L28ET? Does it work? Of course. Is it efficient?...... The more boost you run, the more heat the turbo generates and the more pressure build you have in the turbine housing. If the I/C is not efficient, then you have to increase the boost at the turbo end to get a diminishing return at the intake manifold. When you do that you compound the 2 things that turbo engines do not like. You put increase backpressure in the turbine housing and you put more heat into the engine. Remember, HP is directly related to flow and if the I/C is not capable of flowing the air needed for a given HP, it will put what it can in the engie but what it does put will be hotter than desired. As for the GN I/C, the stock GN was rated (errr, under-rated) at 245hp and 350+hp is fairly commomn among these cars with the stock I/C. The main problem with the stock GN I/C is where the factory located it and the fact that it is always heat-soaked. I guess GM in its wisdom figured they would use all that space under the hood left by the miniscule V6. This I/C is more than enough for a turboZ but how you mount it is the problem. I have seen a couple in 280ZXs and they laid it on its side and it does look odd in there. Is it a lot of trouble to install in a 1st-gen? Maybe, but is it any more than the mods needed to fit the medium & large NPRs? I am not advocating this I/C, I am just saying it should be another option if you can figure out how to fit it. BTW, look at the size of the tubes compared to all the other stockers and tell me which you think will move more air. http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/pictureguides/intercoolers/CASvsstock.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 heheh well, no it's not the prettiest I/C, and no it wont be the easiest to install (though I dont think it'd be much harder than many of the other I/C's out there), but it is efficient, and hey, I'm selling it for $50 It it were a nice Greddy or other top brand I/C that would bolt right in and look great, it wouldn't be so cheap. So, if you're more into function than form and saving money, this would be a great I/C for an L28ET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO-Z Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Slownrusty shows how he refinished his intercooler. I looks like paint to me. Paint is an insulator, the black finish that the factory puts on intercoolers is anitization, which is not an insulator. If you paint your intercooler you will loose efficiency ie higher discharge temperatures compared to no paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 um, the Buick G/N I/C is painted black from the factory, it is NOT anodized. Starion I/C's are PAINTED as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Slownrusty shows how he refinished his intercooler. I looks like paint to me. Paint is an insulator, the black finish that the factory puts on intercoolers is anitization, which is not an insulator. If you paint your intercooler you will loose efficiency ie higher discharge temperatures compared to no paint.Paint, anodization, whatever, all secondary effects. If the IC doesn't flow the air, it doesn't matter what it's coated with, it won't dump the heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Between the houston z guys and my self we have had alot of different intercoolers on our z's. We have tried the starion, volvo, npr, and some others. We have yet to try the buick intercooler. The starion intercooler handled 18-19psi, the volvo handled 15psi, and the npr has yet to be maxed out. The volvo intercooler is the same dimensions as the npr, except it is thicker, and made of metal. So as sleeperZ and scottie pointed out the design and construction is the most important. Go home and tell your girlfriend or wife the hybridz says size doesn't always matter. I have done some searching on the buick one and would say it would fall between the npr and starion in my ranking. The only problem in my applicaton is that I would have to make custom endtanks or pipes to install. I do like however that is it is small (less blocking the radiator or condenser), and is black (less likely be seen by the mister ricer). And NPR's are getting harder and harder to find so this sounds like a good option for the most but radical z's 350hp+ or heavy road racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 And NPR's are getting harder and harder to find so this sounds like a good option for the most but radical z's 350hp+ or heavy road racing. If you are building a 350+hp turbo engine, you should not be looking at junkyard I/Cs, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 If you are building a 350+hp turbo engine, you should not be looking at junkyard I/Cs, IMHO. lol! Yeah thats true. That didn't come out the way I wanted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 yeah definately a good point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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