RedHotZ Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Hi there! Been following this post for a long time and have picked up quite a few good tips. Everything is now mounted in the engine bay, including the EDIS-6 and a WBO2 LC-1. Everything seems to be in order when I hook up the PC. As i turn over the engine I get a reading on rpm at approx 220. But I can't seem to get any sparks. As I crank the engine holding one of the sparkplugs to ground there is no reaction. But if I'm not holding it to ground and turn the engine over, stops and then puts it to gound, there will be a single spark. I've checked it has enough power by connecting power supply directly to battery +. I also have tried running the EDIS without connection to MS as I understand it should give spark by itself. Anyone having any ideas? Pictures: http://forum.200sx-ogn.org/car.php?mode=viewprofile&u=26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aarc240 Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Paul, The 14V from the alternator is a little lower than I would expect. 14.3 to 14.5V is more usual on one of those GM 1-wire units. Condensing the other info on the resets: worse at low RPM but running without the alternator and then with the filter capacitor improved the reset condition. I would get the alternator overhauled (or fit a new unit). Sounds like you may have a problem with either it's internal regulator or with one or more of the diodes. z-ya has it right with shielding those signals and ensuring the shield is grounded at one end only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Hi there! Been following this post for a long time and have picked up quite a few good tips. Everything is now mounted in the engine bay' date=' including the EDIS-6 and a WBO2 LC-1. Everything seems to be in order when I hook up the PC. As i turn over the engine I get a reading on rpm at approx 220. But I can't seem to get any sparks. As I crank the engine holding one of the sparkplugs to ground there is no reaction. But if I'm not holding it to ground and turn the engine over, stops and then puts it to gound, there will be a single spark. I've checked it has enough power by connecting power supply directly to battery +. I also have tried running the EDIS without connection to MS as I understand it should give spark by itself. Anyone having any ideas? Pictures: http://forum.200sx-ogn.org/car.php?mode=viewprofile&u=26 A few things I would check. Does EDIS and coil pack have power when cranking, If it's straight to battery then I guess so. VR sensor polarity. Gray is +, blue is -. I would leave MS unplugged when checking for spark like your are doing. I had a small peice of my sheilding get into my heat shrink. It would ground out the VR sensor only when the edis was plugged in as it grounds through pin 7. Took a while to find the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 aarc240, Even +12V is OK for Megasquirt. My car starts fine at 12V, and once running, the alternator puts out 12.8V. Yea, it's a little low, but remember that the processor in the MS runs on +5V from an internal linear regulator. The linear regulator can provide a regulated +5V with an input voltage as low as 8V. I'm not saying it would run at 8V, but I know for sure it should easily run at 12V. The processor in the EDIS module also uses an internal regulator but uses 12V for the open drain tach (PIP) output signal. The VR sensor runs on +5V from the EDIS internal regulator. RedHotZ, Like Clifton said, check that you have voltage at coils when cranking. Also verify again the RPM indicator in Megatune is steady at 220 RPM. Also check your spark with a timing light incase you are not getting a good ground on the spark plug. Check all plug wires, just in case one or two coils are not getting power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHotZ Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Thanks for helping! Checked yesterday: - Polarity on VR sensor correct - EDIS and coil pack have steady power BUT The RPM indicator was not steady.. When the power is turned on everything looks ok. (pic01) Starting cranking, rpm showing ~226, spark advance at -10. (pic02) After about 5 seconds the RPM turns to 0 and indicator turning red. Could it be the VR messing up? Checked location and gap and it should be ok. Should the shield be insulated with tape etc? (Hmm.. See I cut the pictures a bit too much. The spark adv. indicator is btw always red but showing -10 when rpm works) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aarc240 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 z-ya Yes, 12V is more than enough for MS. What I was pointing out is that a lower than normal output from an alternator usually is a symptom that can be used together with other data to diagnose a problem source. A malfunctioning alternator will put out LOTS of spurious garbage (have a look with a good oscilloscope at th battery terminal of the alternator). afaik an EDIS module uses battery for the PIP signal, not some regulated 12V source so any problems on battery (ie alternator noise) is going to get in there. If your alternator is only putting out 12.8V as indicated on a decent quality analog meter (ie dial type) of reasonably high impedance then you have a problem with either the alternator or the regulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 VR sensors don't go bad to often. You can check the voltage. It will be ac. Mine was around .8v. I would unplug the DB37 plug on MS until you know for sure the EDIS is working properly. You could be lacking a jumper wire on the MS. Once I had my EDIS working I had an issue with MSII. I found that JS10 wasn't jumped to INJ, easy fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHotZ Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 My VR measured approx 0.8V also. And I have disconnected MS with no better result. BTW I use a relay board and the MS was set up for MegasquirtnSparks-Extra as firmware. Got it from RS Autosport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 RedHotZ, Do you have the pair from the snesor to the module shielded (tape is not a conductor, so it won't provide any shielding). The two wires from the VR sensor must be shielded where the shield is only connected to the proper pin on the EDIS module. You can also shield the PIP output, again, connecting the shield only at the EDI module. aarc240, good thinking on a potential noisy alternator with a low voltage. Paul has a scope, so he can look at how noisy the 12V to the MS really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHotZ Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Jupp, it's shielded. Can it be the fact that the shield is in contact with ground elsewhere than edis ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 Yes, if the shield touches chassis ground it could cause a ground loop. If you can insulate it, that would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aarc240 Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Don't forget if you have more than one shielded cable in a harness then you need to insulate ALL the shields from each other as well as chassis ground. Anywhere the shields touch another grounded object other than the planned single ground point there is an earth loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Hi im col from Australia im interested in the megga squirt efi how good is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted June 14, 2006 Author Share Posted June 14, 2006 It is a great sytem for those that have some circuit sense. It is not for those that don't have any basic electrical knowlege. You are better off buying a comercially available one (there are some nice ones down under!). The MS is great for me, as I have close to 20 years experience in electronic hardware design and firmware development. It's what I do every day. The MS has been very reliable, and customizable. I like it because it is an open system, so you have full acess to schematics and source code. If you have to do some customizations, you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Hi could anyone explain why a multi tooth wheel is needed?why cant you just have crank sensor and cam sensor? I'snt the compuuer able to be programed 4,6 or 8cyl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 will the ms soon be able to drive ig/coils direct from computer using the high current drivers that they sell? I am not confident enough to build a ms but as they sell completed units i feel fine about wiring and tuning do you still sugest i use a name brand if i cant understand the internals ? thanks.col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted June 15, 2006 Author Share Posted June 15, 2006 The MS will support many different cylinder configurations. If you want to use EDIS ignition, there are 4, 6, and 8 cylinder versions available from you local junk yard. Yes, you need a muli-tooth wheel. It is not that the MS requires it, the EDIS module does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 You don't need to understand all of the internals, I surely don't. I bought a pre assembled unit (MSII) off ebay cheap as I didn't want to have to bother with assembly. I found that I had to jumper some wires to run EDIS and change the map sensor to a 4 bar, no biggie as there is alot of info on how to do it. Looking back it was ALOT of reading and learning but once you get it running you'll know pretty much everything you need to know about it. I would do it again. The VE generator is amazing. Just punch in the numbers and the car is driveable. Just need to fine tune. There was talk on one of the threads of adding more drivers that will be able to do COP. I don't know if it will happen soon or at all. will the ms soon be able to drive ig/coils direct from computer using the high current drivers that they sell?I am not confident enough to build a ms but as they sell completed units i feel fine about wiring and tuning do you still sugest i use a name brand if i cant understand the internals ? thanks.col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 HI I am going to buy an assembled ms.As i understand they will fit any extras you want.what extras do you recomend eg ;mulipple high current ignition drivers/map daddy,not for higher than the 21lb boost but barrometric correction.Or any other useful stuff. thanks col ps:do you recomend ms2 latest edition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 MSII will only drive one coil as of now. It does have better injector control though. I would get atleast a 3 bar map. It will give you more room if you later decide you want more boost. HI I am going to buy an assembled ms.As i understand they will fit any extras you want.what extras do you recomend eg ;mulipple high current ignition drivers/map daddy' date='not for higher than the 21lb boost but barrometric correction.Or any other useful stuff.thanks col ps:do you recomend ms2 latest edition?[/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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