Great head deal,.. but there is a catch.

[Guest tony78_280z]

Isn't there always a catch.

 

I got a friend who is building a monster sbc motor. He is going with some vortechs, and said he would give me his old heads. They are LT1 heads (off a cop car) They will need to be rebuilt, and possibly some machine work done. Problem is, one of them has a crack.

 

This friend says he has a friend (aka a friend of a friend) who claims he can weld the crack for a small fee, and it'd be as good as new. After doing a quick search here on this wonderful website, I found references to this particular technique so I imagine it can be done. In this thread, Mr Johnc even says he JB-Welded some heads once .

 

Should I trust this weld and go ahead and get the heads? Or should I just take the good one, and keep looking for the mate?

[Pop N Wood]

What "LT1" heads are you referring to, the mid 90's reverse flow aluminum versions, or the early 70's cast iron versions?

 

grumpyvette always says one big advantage of aluminum heads are their ability to be repaired when cracked. He has also discussed at great length the sucessfullness of repairing iron heads.

 

My suggestion is to either look up some of his old posts or PM the man himself.

[jt1]

If it's an aluminum head, it can be welded fairly cheaply with good results, and would be worth getting. If their iron heads, I would get the good one and look for a mate. Welding cast iron is iffy, sometimes you get good results, lots of times you don't. Go ahead and get them both, you might find a bare head and use the valves, etc., on it

 

John

[dr_hunt]

The only real good way to do cast is tig and even that isn't real good. I'd steer clear, if they were hot enought to crack, then they are undoubtedly warped and some core shift could have occurred. Best to start with good used parts rather than not so good used parts IMHO.

[American]

If it's cast iron it is probably cracked in one of the two center exhaust seats.

 

IF that is the case AND the crack does not extend out of the valve seat then you can simply cut the seat and install a new seat. If the crack extends out of the seat orinto the water jacket then you are looking at welding.

 

I'm not too hip on welded seats but it can be done.

 

If it's cracked in the center of the head in between the two center bolt holes then I'd scrap it. You typically only see this on SB 400 heads because of the steam holes.

[grumpyvette]

if its an ALUMINUM cylinder head a quality cylinder head shop can make the repair to standards exceeded the new strength, if its IRON in most cases its a DOORSTOP

 

 

Id also point out that the reverse flow design LT1 heads used on the LT1 engines built since `year 1992 and newer bolt onto but can not be used on the gen 1 blocks without extensive mods to the cooling systems flow requireing cylinderhead and intake theres no water flow to the radiator neck(thermostat houseing) on an LT1 intake, LT1s use a water pump to radiator path

 

since your buddies going with vortec heads hes EITHER got the EARLY design lt1 heads or the VORTECs won,t work on that reverse flow block design

[Guest tony78_280z]

Thanks for all the good info guys.

 

I'll check the exact location of the crack. But I heard it's "Not in a critical spot" And that it was near one of the seats, but not into the water jacket.

 

These are iron heads. Hey says the motor came out of a caprice, and that it was a roller motor. Not sure if that helps any. I need to get the casting number and get some facts.

 

Still waiting for a reply from my JohnC about that JB-Weld job.

[Tim240z]

Tony,

Read Grumpy's post again....these 2 sets of heads are apples and oranges. Since you referenced a cop car, we will assume it is a newer model (not early 70s).

Vortecs and LT1 heads are not interchangeable.

[Guest tony78_280z]

Finaly got some facts on the heads.

 

 

 

14102193...87-up...305/350......1.94"/1.5" valves

 

 

 

Turns out these aint LT1 heads after all. But they are interesting just the same. Armed with the casting numbers, I then did a web search by "Casing Numbers" & "14102193" and found mostly threads in various forums.

 

 

 

1. Here is a thread by another guy who claims these heads were taken out of an old police car.
   
2. On another thread, the poster claimed that the following information originated from this dead link. Either way, the information is interesting. http://www.thesuccesssolution.com/s...e=98697&DL=5488
   

 

•CYLINDER HEAD SPECS:

 

CASTING NUMBER 14102193

 

SWIRL PORT INTAKE PORT DESIGN

 

65.3cc COMBUSTION CHAMBER

 

1.94" INTAKE 1.50" EXHAUST VALVE

 

VALVE SPRING PART NUMBER IS 3911068 (SAME SPRING USED WITH THE OLD 300H.P 350 CRATE)

 

INSTALLED HEIGHT 1.70" PRESSURE @ INSTALLED HEIGHT IS 80 LBS * PRESSURE WITH VALVE OPEN IS 267 LBS.

 

THESE SPRINGS ARE GOOD FOR .550" LIFT BUT CLEARENCE BETWEEN GUIDE AND RETAINER MUST BE DOUBLE CHECKED BEFORE ATTEMPTING.

 

7 BOLT EXHAUST FLANGE

 

CENTERBOLT VALVE COVER FLANGE

 

1987-1995 INTAKE MANIFOLD BOLT PATTERN WITH CENTER INTAKE BOLTS CANTED @ 72° ANGLE

 

THIS CYLINDER HEAD IS NOT A PERFORMANCE ORIENTED CYLINDER HEAD. IT IS CLASSIFIED AS A HIGH SWIRL HEAD THAT WAS INTENDED FOR GOOD BOTTOM END TORQUE AND FUEL ECONOMY. THE INTAKE RUNNER IS RESTRICTIVE BECCAUSE IT HAS A RAMP CAST INTO THE BOTTOM OF THE BOWL TO PROMOTE HIGH SWIRL.

 

 

Yup, that is what these look like. Funky looking things. So, Can anyone else offer up some advice on these things. With some porting work do you think they can increase the performance rating, yet maintain the high swirl? That would be (oddly) the idealic heads for me as I persue power with decent milage. How the hell would one go about porting something like these? My vizard books don't mention porting these things out. A good weblink to porting "High Swirl" heads would be great. (Ahem~Grumpy!)

 

 

 

 

Thanks again guys.

[grumpyvette]

swirl port heads?....are ...well lets say FAR LESS performance oriented than most heads available, they are designed for low rpm efficiency.

if they were FREE Id refuse them ! as a potential choice if max hp was the goal of the engine build VS low cost.

yeah I really hate to be a TOTAL WET BLANKET!

but the best advice I can give you is spend the money to get good or excellent cylinderheads, a huge percentage of the engines hp potential is due to the cylinderheads you sellect

[Guest tony78_280z]

Thanks for the honest advice Grumpy. They are free, and I'll refuse them.

 

I've never been looking for max HP or torque with my Z. I figure around 350hp with good street manors is my goal. I want a realy fun ride that I can afford (gas milage wise) to drive regularly.

 

Perhaps I should look else where for some good heads. What I got now are 1.84 and they just don't cut the mustard. But, I think I'm gonna listen to your wisdom and keep looking for something better.

[johnc]

Sorry, a little late to the thread. Yes, I used JB weld to fix a crack on a cylinder head but it was in a non-performance application and I just needed to seal a water passage at the head/block surface.

 

Cast iron is weldable and I've successfully welded a couple cast iron heads for customers when they got too enthusiastic with a Dremel. I would not weld up a head with cracks in the combustion chamber or at the valve seat.

[PeterZ]

I've been gone for a week so I'll jump in late too. We used to pin the cracks (in the '80s) if they are in cast iron. It's very old fashioned but was a good fix even at the seats. Almost every machine shop did them. I've been out of the business for a while but I've only welded aluminum heads and fixed cast heads with the tapered pins.

[Guest tony78_280z]

Was at walmart today and saw a package of Jb Weld. Right on the front where it lists uses it specificaly states cylinder heads, cylinder sleaves, and valve seats! valve Seats!! I wonder if anyone has tried that one!

[Here comes trouble]

Being a pack rat. I would take them, strip the cracked one for parts and find a match for the other for an economy engine rebuild where the heads might not require any work with the cracked one discarded. I like the size of the valves.........................................Did you say JB Weld ...........fixed a crack in a L2OB aluminum head which lasted about 3 years ....not a permanet fix though. That old pick-up had 250,000 miles on it with original clutch and engine never removed when I abandoned it in Kalamath Falls on some property I owned. Oil was 98% STP without any oil changes for 3 years after the major JB Weld Overhaul.. Abiut 5% of the exhaust was routed thru the radiator cap with a hole in it to compensate for another head gasket leak that developed after the major rebuild. Best 620 I ever owned

[Guest tony78_280z]

Being a pack rat. I would take them, strip the cracked one for parts and find a match for the other for an economy engine rebuild where the heads might not require any work with the cracked one discarded. I like the size of the valves.........................................Did you say JB Weld ...........fixed a crack in a L2OB aluminum head which lasted about 3 years ....not a permanet fix though. That old pick-up had 250,000 miles on it with original clutch and engine never removed when I abandoned it in Kalamath Falls on some property I owned. Oil was 98% STP without any oil changes for 3 years after the major JB Weld Overhaul..[/u'] Abiut 5% of the exhaust was routed thru the radiator cap with a hole in it to compensate for another head gasket leak that developed after the major rebuild. Best 620 I ever owned

 

I like your style!

 

BTW this is a kind of old thread. I only brought it up because I was in Walmart the other day and had a flashback.

 

About those heads..I discarded these heads, and have since come into possession of an immaculate set from this motor. They too are the less desireable 193s, but they are in far to good of condition to toss. I've been porting on them to make them a little bit more desireable. I'm not holding any delusions that they will be as good as vortecs, and I don't expect them to be as good as other performance heads, but I should be able to get them to flow as good as other stock heads. $150.00 for the entire motor (heads block, intake and exhaust manifold) and the condition it was in was the best deal I've ever had in regards to this project.