alternativez2003 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 so I thought I would start a new thread. Well, last night I slide the engine with trans into the Z. It almosts fits without alterations. The hood lies on the distributor and the intake plenum, so I need to figure out how to get the front down a couple of inches as it sits or move it all back 2 or 3 inches so it will drop down an inch or so. I see options right now of trying to lower the Z steering rack, exploring cutting into the oil pan to remove a few inches across the lower front, or cutting into the firewall. There may be other solutions such as changing the hood, but those are the most obvious. Lowering the rack poses a small problem with the steering shaft universal joint and the cross member, and who knows what else would be compromised in the steering, so I'm not liking that one. Cutting into the oil pan would only be possible if the crank allows it, and even then it is not sounding like a great idea, so it looks like cutting into the firewall or doing some creative massaging with a body hammer may be the best and least invasive solution. Then I will have to deal with the interior and under dash complications. I like that the engine would sit even slightly deeper into the body for better weight distribution. I like the placement of the shifter, I think; although I haven't reattached the linkage, it looks like it will come out exactly where it used to or a little farther back where I would prefer. I want the linkage to fit as high in the tunnel as possible, so I can use a short shift kit and cut down the stick to move more like a toggle than a lever. There is plenty of extra space between the front of the engine and the front framing where the radiator would be mounted. There is still the question of fitting power steering, but I think I will leave that as a later contingency. The Z rack and pinion was very responsive and wasn't very heavy at slow speeds, as I recall, but I have gotten spoiled by power. I wouldn't mind not having that entire system however; it is just more weight, more clutter, more work, and more things to leak, and I am not sure what power rack would fit. AC should be no problem, I may have to move the compressor upwards very slightly, but that shouldn't be too difficult. Again, one of the later stages of the project. I could live without AC if necessary, the Z has a great ventilation system, but I want the comforts of a really nice car. Since there is so much room in front of the engine, I'll probably dispense with the stock viscous clutch cooling fan and use an electric pulling fan on the engine side of the radiator. Looks like plenty of room for working on everything, and plenty of room for a supercharger...never did like the intake plenum on the 3.5 anyway, and the AFM is on the exhaust side, crossing over the rocker cover, so I'm looking into SC as a way to get more power and better hood clearance (and a better , cleaner looking engine). I'm anxious to get the entire car with engine up off the ground, so I can get under and see how everything else will fit, design mounts, etc. Pretty exciting. I think it will work. No pictures yet, but I'll get on that. I can feel it accelerating out of a corner already. Oh, the glory days of spent youth. I hope I still have some youth to spend, cause this one's going to be fun. Later, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Zone Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Jim, If you end up needing some additional hood clearance I sell this hood. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=101130 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alternativez2003 Posted September 22, 2005 Author Share Posted September 22, 2005 I will certainly keep that in mind. It would help at the rear of the hood, but it looks like it would still be too close at the front. If, however, I could eliminate the distributor, which is at the front end of the camshaft, it would probably work. Very nice job! Thanks for the suggestion. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Zone Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 I'll anxiously be awaiting pictures of this set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alternativez2003 Posted September 22, 2005 Author Share Posted September 22, 2005 As soon as I borrow my daughter's digital, and then I'll have to learn how to post photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 if you need somewhere to host images, image shack http://imageshack.us/ hosts for free. Then you can just copy/paste the second link (thumnail #1) right into a post, and it'll be a nice little thumbnail that people can click on to get the full size picture (comes up in a second window, so you can close it when you're done and don't have to go backwards to get back to hybridz) Thinking about a SC already? I thought you where gonna try to be happy with the stock power. Well, in the words of tim the tool man taylor MORE POWER! Hope the project & the ride can take a couple of years off ya (in the good direction, not the bad direction). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alternativez2003 Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 Thanks, and thanks gollum for the posting advice. "More power, heh, hehe, heh;" as a kid I was always customizing bikes and stuffing larger DC motors into my toy trucks. I built a 4wd Aurora HO scale "pancake" motor and an HO "rail" drag racer when I was 10, and made all my scale farm toys operational. Never grow up. That probably mirrors the childhood of most of the folks here at HybridZ. This project is working out pretty well so far. Actually by removing the steering rack I was able to shoehorn the engine et al into a proper position without surgery. I was amazed. I will massage the front top of the tunnel for a slightly better angle and more clearance, but that is no big deal. Shifter is in the original hole. Now just have to deal with the rack. I'm a patient person, and the answers will come, often so simple and convenient, if you go at it from a Zen perspective. I think I can cut the engine mounting points off the 6er crossmember and weld them directly to the Z crossmember and also devise a way to bolt them to the frame rails and the stock 6er mount bushings will work. This would add strength to the structure as they would work as a gusset or brace without adding much weight. I hope to hear more from jmortenson about the bumpsteer and moving the rack, btw, that was a great FYI article! You out there? If I lower the car about an inch, will moving the rack about an inch downward have a positive or negative effect on the steering geometry? I could possibly alter the front of the oil pan, but again, it's a wait and see situation, before I do anything drastic. Gotta set the diff in and get things lined up first. Bought a small welder at a garage sale this morning, just to be able to tack things up for a real welder. Thanks again guys. This is so cool. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Just FYI my bone stock (oops! K&N drop in filter) BMW 535i (1988) dyno'd at 133rwhp and 150ft-lbs... Actually a fair bit more than a stock 240z/L24, but nothing crazy. It will be a nice platform for future modifications though. With the 8:1CR I am seriously thinking about turboing mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alternativez2003 Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 Yeah, I realize the 3.5 isn't the most powerful thing out there, but, as you say, it does have potential. Size and weight are much the same as the Datsun L6. When new these were rated at something like 185 engine hp. With the low cr, forced induction is a strong possibility. I'm thinking about 200 would make me pretty happy, any more is a bonus as long as I don't have to sacrifice reliability or extreme gas mileage losses. I really like the L6 engine and happen to have this one and all the stuff that goes with it, and while the 635 is a wonderful car, it's never meant as much to me as the Z. So, this way I get to have what I think is the best of both. You visit the Roadfly forums? There is information on the E24 forum and TCD, Todd Sweeney, is one of the members who does turbos on these engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 You can use the JTR crossmember spacers and get another half inch of clearance out of both the crossmember and the rack. Don't know if that's enough for you but it's a cheap and easy mod to make without any cutting and welding. And if it's no help they come out just as easy as they go in. No mods to the steering shaft are needed. The only change to the suspension is that it raises (or is that lowers?) the front roll center slightly. That can be compensated for by relocating the LCA pivot points up by one half to three quarters of an inch. If this is a street car the LCA pivot mod really isn't necessary. It's unlikely you will notice any change in the cars behavor with the just the crossmember spacers. https://shell7.tdl.com/~jags/Pages/Parts_DAT200.html DAT-105 $20 for a pair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Lowers the RC. Great idea Dan. Keep It Simple Stupid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alternativez2003 Posted September 26, 2005 Author Share Posted September 26, 2005 I was thinking over the weekend of placing spacers between the crossmember and the frame, and there you go. I will make my own, as I will combine the motor mounting points, which are a few inches rear from the Z's to a plate which can also serve as a spacer for the crossmember, and will be welded to the crossmember. I will also be removing the Z mounting posts, so I can use the oe bushings from the 3.5. Thanks for the JTR url. I think I will also be judiciously cutting into the tunnel and firewall to move the engine back one or even two inches to allow for better alignment and a little more space for the top of the bell housing and trans. That will also provide the relief I need with regard to the steering rack and will help align trans to diff. BTW, I think my BMW diff is a limited slip; I hadn't expected that, so had never actually checked. It also weighs about 20 pounds more than the old R180, much shorter and fatter too. Another question in that area in terms of optimal alignment of the diff: what is your opinion of a single vertical plane of alignment of wheels and diff? I remember that the R180 sat forward and there was an article years ago pointing out that this had been improved later with the R200, but I'm just wondering what is optimal as I locate the BMW diff. Thanks again. Later, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.