alternativez2003

Really cool! I made a similar speedo pickup on my m42 in my '76 2002, and it works fine. Maybe line the sensor up a little straighter. Nice job. I'm still thinking of my '85 635 engine in the Z, just because I have everything to do it. Good luck!

Noting some of the comments here, I suggest visiting the BMW Roadfly forums. Lots of good ideas there. I'd like to supercharge the m30 in my Z, but no one has a setup yet. The choice of engine depends on the sort of character one wants in the car. I've done the V8 in the Z, actually way back in '73. I like the six, since the Z was designed for that format. I also liked the very strong, determined way the 3.5 pulled my big, overweight 635 around with plenty of gusto, and it simply reminded me of the lightweight Z that I really wanted to be driving, about a ton less than the 635, so I figured it would do for me. I also like the "old school" look of the older BMW engine, plenty of aluminum to polish, and I'm not keen on plastic covers. And...sometimes we just go with what we have. There is also a connection between Datsun and BMW, so I'm doing a little tribute to old Albrecht Goertz, (but I shouldn't mention that on a Z forum). My little '76 2002 should zip with the m42, and there is a nice Downing Atlanta supercharger kit already set up for that engine. Can't wait. So, Pick the engine/car combination that drives the way you want it to. It's really cool to build a Z in such a personal way. Have fun. Jim

Hey there, This is interesting. I've started a m30 from my '85 635 into my '70 240Z. It's a tough fit, but it will work. I've got a post here on one of the other sub forums from a while back. I've also got a '76 2002 with a '91 m42 very nearly done. BMW engines are great. Good job with this forum. Later, Jim

Have you considered the weight of the v12 in the rear of the Fiero? I had an X1/9 years ago and even that was not so much fun in the rain. The front was so light it lifted and hydroplaned quite easily. I'm all for swaps, but you will lose the quickness and agility of such a light car in favor of what would be considered a cruising engine. Swaps within a mark or within an engine configuration are enough work and re-engineering, but give it a shot if that's your desire. It will cost you a fortune. I've spent nearly 3G putting an m42 BMW engine into my 76 2002 with all the new seals, gaskets, mounts I've made, the donor car, etc, and I do it all myself. I'm putting my 3.5 m30 L6 from my 85 635 into my '70 240Z, and it will no doubt run a bit more as it is more of a restoration at the same time. I'm certainly not trying to discourage you; just try to be realistic so you don't get into it and then feel trapped. I doubt you could get your money out of a half done project like that if you hit an unsurmountable obstacle, and the odds seem stacked. Good luck with whatever you decide.

I'm still holding on the 3.5 m30 into my 70 240Z, because other stuff just keeps getting in the way. Right now I'm putting the m42 1.8 DOHC with factory header and 5 speed, diff and all from a 91 318is into my 76 BMW 2002. Downing Atlanta also has put together a supercharger kit for the m42, which should make it pretty smart. Then I'll have two of the coolest cars ever made, the last year of the 2002, and the first year of the Z, both with upgraded BMW drivetrains! Well, in my opinion anyway. That M3 engine would be a tough one from any perspective, but I'm not one to dissuade another nut from trying something tough. Good luck.

If you can't sell or give it away, and you can't keep it, I second the "call the junkyard," and the (Great shot Auxilary) the sawsall techniques. Around here, with a title signed and noted "junk" you can have it hauled off and get $25 for the shell, no need to cut it up. Check your local classifieds ads. It's a good way to clean out the garage of old flywheels, cracked heads, etc, while you are at it. You don't even need wheels on it, set it up on a couple of blocks or your floor jack, and they will drag it on to the truck or trailor.

Thanks for Pete's Page and the centering comments. Actually I meant vertically, left/right. So you are aligning your engine to the diff which is off-centered? I am replacing everything with a BMW drivetrain which was centered in the original car, so I was planning to center it vertically in the Z. I got alarmed when I saw your post, that there might be some reason, even particular to the Z, for aligning off center. Also the bimmer driveshaft is a two piece with a center bearing, so setting up the horizontal diff angles is flexible. So, I think I will continue on my plan, but I have appreciated your information and the comments you have generated on the subject. Every bit of information is helpful to getting the job done right. What engine are you using? Maybe I missed that somewhere. Good luck with yours. Nice precision work.

Ah, so this one's been around the block a time or two...Cool car though

OK, so maybe an uninformed question: Why are your engine's and drivetrain's centerline not on the car's centerline? I'm in the middle of aligning mine and don't want to screw things up. I figured everything should be centered. I appreciate this thread, very informative. What was "Pete's webpage" that you referred to? Thanks

gotta say, "I like it!" There are a few little oddities: the battery box, the rear bumper missing, but it has some real character, not to be messed with, I'd say. I kind of like the rear panel in contrast to the black. Interesting. I wouldn't have thought it would look that good. Very tough.

You have a good idea, but our 2004 MINI S automatically regulates both wiper speed adjustment and volume, not constantly of course, but at stops. You might check to see if Jeep has such a switch or relay on a later model and wire it in. Seems rather unnecessary really, just more complexity to pay for and have to repair someday. I don't know if I want my wipers flapping wildly just because I'm going 80. Just kidding. Nice idea though. By the way, your correction of the Hyundai spelling suggests you would like to be correct in yours: agent, financial, unless, and potentiometer, and "miss associated" might be replaced by mistaken or misinterpreted. Good luck with your ideas. I invented the currently-under-development highway guidance system when I was 10 years old, some 40+ years ago. My HO roadrace set and riding in the reverse seat, staring nervously at the semi grills out the back window of the family station wagon gave me the idea, but I was a kid with a goofy idea which would prevent many highway accidents, but with no idea of how to patent it. I suppose some engineers had it going way back then also, so even if one can't actually develop an idea, the intellectual property, or idea itself, is patentable. More power to you.

http://www.automotive.eaton.com/index.html# You may not need to go so far as the M90; the M42 or M60 may be more appropriate unless you are really increasing displacement. Check out the eaton site and their specs. I'm not expert of course, and I do believe in overkill, but sometimes more isn't better, just more expensive, but becomes less effective. The four barrel intake would work well, of course. I was considering a similar idea on my BMW 3.5 L-6 in the Z, but I'm looking also at a Vortec charger, or, even figuring that NA may be enough to make me happy. Keep us posted with photos. Good luck, sounds fun.

That's mighty nice, and an amazingly low price with all the stuff that goes with. Wish I had the dough; I'd shove one of those into my sweet, little old '76 2002, which has just come to a quiet rest. That would be one hell of a sleeper. That engine is a nice swap into a 318, and wonder why they are available at all...must be hard to keep an M3 in one piece! I'm starting to get ideas...no, no, no, mustn't even think about it. I gotta finish the Z first, and the house.

Cool engine, plenty of power. Yet, the ol' school car guy in me really likes to see the actual engine with evidence that the parts have been well designed inside and out. I want to see at least a hint of the heritage of a BMW aircraft engine in my Z, polished aluminum, clean hard tubing for vacuum lines instead of rubber, nary an unnecessary wire in view, and the necessary as inconspicuous as possible. Not exactly the show hot rod look, just slick and very clean, hard not soft. I guess I haven't learned to appreciate the molded plastic covers because they soften the appearance of lean, efficient machinery. No doubt, however, that M would be a screamingly quick engine in a Z, but will probably get more expensive than I could handle. You should do it.

Piece o' crap? Mechanical fuel injection on a Z? Throttles? That thing doesn't make any sense.

I had the 635 which is the donor for my 70 Z. There was a guy who mentioned a SB Ford swap into his 635 on the Roadfly forum. You might do a search. Yes, great car, but restoration costs for a car that age and $ can get high. The 6 is a heavy car and not much of a back seat even for kids. They have a great suspension. I'm not sure I would go to the trouble of swapping into one though. Try a 535i, as is. Any year, I like the late 80's. More room than the 6 and maybe faster, and try to find a manual trans. That's a fine family sedan with the grunt to be fun to drive. Then think M5, or do some forced induction. I think it would be less money and lots of fun, and reliable. The problem with swaps is they are very tough to complete and can be difficult to get totally sorted out to the point to be reliable family transportation. Make your swap your personal toy, and keep the wife and kids in a safe, solid, reliable car.

Just won't give up, will you? Nah, it sounds pretty cool, but I've owned mid and rear engine cars, but I'm not sure the layout is as good as the front/rear. Fiat X1/9 was fun to drive on curves, but heavy rain at night was pretty freaky. What are you going to put into the huge trunk space you will have up front? Think about the $$ and dream about a Pantera. Fabulous car, georgeous design, big bad Ford V8 behind the seats, one of the few cars that ever flat out whooped my 1970Z when it was new, but noisy, fumes, etc,...yes, I'd still grab one if I could afford it. There is a point in a swap project that you stop and ask yourself,"Is it worth it?" I think this one sounds daunting, but then, I had also thought of a small block mid/rear Z several years ago, and I'm sure several of us have wished for an AWD Zcar, so don't ask about sanity as a reason to do it or not.

sounds interesting; definitely do the measurements, oil pan clearance, trans, etc. I'm doing the 3.5 BMW into 70 Z swap, and it's going well, but I've had to work to get the right positions, gaining fractions of inches and angles to get it in. Everything is a swap is a set of compromises. I have finally gotten it where I want it; the hood closes; and I have plenty of room in front, but I've had to cut into the firewall and tunnel, so I have that to rebuild. I wouldn't suggest any swap to the faint of heart, but if we want it badly enough, we will do it anyway. That 300 is a large six. Do you have it, trans and all?

I was thinking over the weekend of placing spacers between the crossmember and the frame, and there you go. I will make my own, as I will combine the motor mounting points, which are a few inches rear from the Z's to a plate which can also serve as a spacer for the crossmember, and will be welded to the crossmember. I will also be removing the Z mounting posts, so I can use the oe bushings from the 3.5. Thanks for the JTR url. I think I will also be judiciously cutting into the tunnel and firewall to move the engine back one or even two inches to allow for better alignment and a little more space for the top of the bell housing and trans. That will also provide the relief I need with regard to the steering rack and will help align trans to diff. BTW, I think my BMW diff is a limited slip; I hadn't expected that, so had never actually checked. It also weighs about 20 pounds more than the old R180, much shorter and fatter too. Another question in that area in terms of optimal alignment of the diff: what is your opinion of a single vertical plane of alignment of wheels and diff? I remember that the R180 sat forward and there was an article years ago pointing out that this had been improved later with the R200, but I'm just wondering what is optimal as I locate the BMW diff. Thanks again. Later, Jim

Yeah, I realize the 3.5 isn't the most powerful thing out there, but, as you say, it does have potential. Size and weight are much the same as the Datsun L6. When new these were rated at something like 185 engine hp. With the low cr, forced induction is a strong possibility. I'm thinking about 200 would make me pretty happy, any more is a bonus as long as I don't have to sacrifice reliability or extreme gas mileage losses. I really like the L6 engine and happen to have this one and all the stuff that goes with it, and while the 635 is a wonderful car, it's never meant as much to me as the Z. So, this way I get to have what I think is the best of both. You visit the Roadfly forums? There is information on the E24 forum and TCD, Todd Sweeney, is one of the members who does turbos on these engines.

Thanks, and thanks gollum for the posting advice. "More power, heh, hehe, heh;" as a kid I was always customizing bikes and stuffing larger DC motors into my toy trucks. I built a 4wd Aurora HO scale "pancake" motor and an HO "rail" drag racer when I was 10, and made all my scale farm toys operational. Never grow up. That probably mirrors the childhood of most of the folks here at HybridZ. This project is working out pretty well so far. Actually by removing the steering rack I was able to shoehorn the engine et al into a proper position without surgery. I was amazed. I will massage the front top of the tunnel for a slightly better angle and more clearance, but that is no big deal. Shifter is in the original hole. Now just have to deal with the rack. I'm a patient person, and the answers will come, often so simple and convenient, if you go at it from a Zen perspective. I think I can cut the engine mounting points off the 6er crossmember and weld them directly to the Z crossmember and also devise a way to bolt them to the frame rails and the stock 6er mount bushings will work. This would add strength to the structure as they would work as a gusset or brace without adding much weight. I hope to hear more from jmortenson about the bumpsteer and moving the rack, btw, that was a great FYI article! You out there? If I lower the car about an inch, will moving the rack about an inch downward have a positive or negative effect on the steering geometry? I could possibly alter the front of the oil pan, but again, it's a wait and see situation, before I do anything drastic. Gotta set the diff in and get things lined up first. Bought a small welder at a garage sale this morning, just to be able to tack things up for a real welder. Thanks again guys. This is so cool. Jim

As soon as I borrow my daughter's digital, and then I'll have to learn how to post photos.

I will certainly keep that in mind. It would help at the rear of the hood, but it looks like it would still be too close at the front. If, however, I could eliminate the distributor, which is at the front end of the camshaft, it would probably work. Very nice job! Thanks for the suggestion. Jim

so I thought I would start a new thread. Well, last night I slide the engine with trans into the Z. It almosts fits without alterations. The hood lies on the distributor and the intake plenum, so I need to figure out how to get the front down a couple of inches as it sits or move it all back 2 or 3 inches so it will drop down an inch or so. I see options right now of trying to lower the Z steering rack, exploring cutting into the oil pan to remove a few inches across the lower front, or cutting into the firewall. There may be other solutions such as changing the hood, but those are the most obvious. Lowering the rack poses a small problem with the steering shaft universal joint and the cross member, and who knows what else would be compromised in the steering, so I'm not liking that one. Cutting into the oil pan would only be possible if the crank allows it, and even then it is not sounding like a great idea, so it looks like cutting into the firewall or doing some creative massaging with a body hammer may be the best and least invasive solution. Then I will have to deal with the interior and under dash complications. I like that the engine would sit even slightly deeper into the body for better weight distribution. I like the placement of the shifter, I think; although I haven't reattached the linkage, it looks like it will come out exactly where it used to or a little farther back where I would prefer. I want the linkage to fit as high in the tunnel as possible, so I can use a short shift kit and cut down the stick to move more like a toggle than a lever. There is plenty of extra space between the front of the engine and the front framing where the radiator would be mounted. There is still the question of fitting power steering, but I think I will leave that as a later contingency. The Z rack and pinion was very responsive and wasn't very heavy at slow speeds, as I recall, but I have gotten spoiled by power. I wouldn't mind not having that entire system however; it is just more weight, more clutter, more work, and more things to leak, and I am not sure what power rack would fit. AC should be no problem, I may have to move the compressor upwards very slightly, but that shouldn't be too difficult. Again, one of the later stages of the project. I could live without AC if necessary, the Z has a great ventilation system, but I want the comforts of a really nice car. Since there is so much room in front of the engine, I'll probably dispense with the stock viscous clutch cooling fan and use an electric pulling fan on the engine side of the radiator. Looks like plenty of room for working on everything, and plenty of room for a supercharger...never did like the intake plenum on the 3.5 anyway, and the AFM is on the exhaust side, crossing over the rocker cover, so I'm looking into SC as a way to get more power and better hood clearance (and a better , cleaner looking engine). I'm anxious to get the entire car with engine up off the ground, so I can get under and see how everything else will fit, design mounts, etc. Pretty exciting. I think it will work. No pictures yet, but I'll get on that. I can feel it accelerating out of a corner already. Oh, the glory days of spent youth. I hope I still have some youth to spend, cause this one's going to be fun. Later, Jim

and get some photos. I know there are more powerful or exotic engines out there, but it seems like a good swap because of the basic similarities and the avaiability since I have the 5 spd 635 to strip. Nuts, I suppose, and almost a vulgar reference here on a Z forum, but there is more than a slight connection between BMW and Datsun, if you accept the historical association of German designer Albrecht Goertz to the Z's and Toyota 2000GT. So, I thought it a kind trubute to Al. Anyway, the BMW L6 is cross flow, torquey, smooth, reliable, widely available, somewhat "old school" in it's simplicity even with the early Bosch DME, and not as expensive to maintain as many say, and I've been maintaining old BMW's for several years, so they are familiar. I did a drop in of the 3.5 from my 86 735 a couple of years ago, and the fit seemed very good. I did a swap of the old 327 way back in about 73 because my buddies were all into hot rodding Chevys. It was a really well done project, and it was really strong, but a tuned, high performance carburated 327 was pretty rugged engines, and I just prefer the straight six in the Z. I would think the M engines would be a likely swap, especially from a 3 series, but again, cost is higher on M's. The NA engine lends itself to forced induction, but is capable of some reasonable power with upgrades. I'm not building a race car, I'm getting long in the tooth and hope to live a while yet. These engines are great for highway cruising, but still give very strong acceleration at any speed.