Questions re: selling a car to out of state buyer

[Guest bastaad525]

Hey all. Well I think I have my first serious buyer for the Z, unfortunately, he is across the country in PA.

 

I have always had reservations about selling stuff sight unseen, especially something like a car... but this guy seems to REALLY want it, he has the money, isn't haggling, and is willing to fully arrange shipping and such.

 

But I need to know, what do I need to do on my end? I figure, there's gotta be a few guys here who've sold cars to out of state buyers before...

 

So what do I need to do? Just handle it like a regular sale? Give him the pink and mail in my release form?

 

What about possible issues like... if he get's the car and decides he doesn't like it for some reason? I've provided him with several pictures and have tried to describe the car as accurately as possible... but still... you just don't know until you see it in person. So what happens if he gets it and decides he doesnt want it?

 

What about payment? What are my options within reason, of expecting payment. I'm guessing a money order or certified bank check or soemthing like that would be best. And are there any ways of assuring HIM that he's not going to get ripped off?

 

Anyways, any tips/info you guys could give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

Can't believe this might really be it.... I can feel heartbreak coming on fast

[Sumo]

First of all like they say in all the junkyard signs " In God we Trust" in your checks we dont. Or was it "Helen Waite is our complaint department manager, if you have a complaint go to Helen Waite."

Cash is always the best way to go!! Tell the buyer to come and pay cash sign over the pinks, take the plates off and send in your release. With the proliferation of counterfeit cashiers checks and money orders, i would only take cash. The reason why i said remove the plates is because i sold my brothers 88 Monte Carlo SS to a guy in Louisiana then 19 months later i was getting parking tickets from LSU and on the ticket the Texas plate numbers were written on the ticket. Even though i sent in notification or a release to Texas DPS when i sold it, i was still getting notices for the car. A friend of mine who worked in our version of your DMV said to at least remove the plates so that the buyer will have to at least get his own plates and register it. If he choses to drive around with no plates then that's his problem. Cash is God at least meet with the buyer.

Good Luck

[waynekarnes]

western union, probably your bank or credit union, for a fee will act as an escrow company.

 

cashier checks can be faked, as well as money orders.

 

money can sit at escrow company until checks clear, up to 15 days.

 

friend sold a lap top, b of america c check. turned out to be fake. she didn't get ripped off as i told her to wait 10 days before shipping.

 

she went to bank america. told them she wanted to verfy check was real. took them 5 days to verify, they discovered it was a very good forgery.

 

meantime seller was sending threatening emails, suggesting that she had ripped him off, he was going to report her to ebay and pay pal, nothing to do with pay pal, but as is part of ebay, they take reports. threatened to call the local police dept.

 

he was faking of course. but a good tactic to make one think that the buyer is legit.

 

as far as selling ... you provide bill of sale ...

 

I _____________________ 2315 Get a Z Ave, Fremont Ca. 92315 , have sold one_______________________________________ ( 1972 datsun 240z ) calif lic number _____________________ VIN _____________________ to _____________________ ( put sellers address here ), for the sum of ___________. Vehicle is sold as is, where is, no warranty or guarantees expressed nor provided by seller.

Seller, not being a mechanic nor a professional auto restorer, has to the best of his abilities, given an honest description of the vehicle. Any existing or future problems not included in the discription provided by seller in advertisement, on the phone or emails, are assumed to be unknown at time of sell.

 

Buyer agrees to accept vehicle in existing described condition.

 

Buyer to pay for all shipping, delivery costs. All registration, owner ship paper work and vehicle will be turned over to buyer once funds have cleared.

Buyer to pay all registration fees any other related cost.

 

Seller requires an upfront non refundable $200 cash fee to cover costs of advertisements and other related fees, should buyer not follow through with transaction.

 

Both Seller and and Buyer agree to use ________ as escrow agent, fees to be paid by ____________________.

 

Upon compeletion of transaction, the $200 will be returned or deducted from the agreed upon sales price, Seller's option.

 

 

 

 

 

Seller's Signature _______________________ Date __________

 

 

 

Buyer's Signature _______________________ Date __________

 

 

 

 

 

 

that's a general idea of what you might want to use.

 

modify it anyway you wish, completely ignore it, what ever you see fit.

 

good luck with your sell.

[2003z]

yeah, sometimes it can take weeks for fake cashiers checks to bounce. Another option is to have him wire the money directly into your bank account. If you have a credit union or another free way to open a new account, do so and use it for this transaction only, then close it, since he will have to have your routing and account numbers to wire the money.

[Guest bastaad525]

yikes see this is why I am reluctant to do it this way. I didn't like the vibe from the guy that he is in some kinda big rush.

 

Well I am pretty sure he's not going to want to come out here, that's going to add significantly to the price of the car, probably not worth it for him.

 

So I should contact my bank about using them as an escrow company? Again, not sure that would be worth it to him to pay the extra $XXX.

 

So if he sends me a check, money order, cashiers check, or certified check, how long do I have to wait to know for sure it is clear? I think that's going to be the best bet since it doesn't involve paying any extra fee, and he's just going to accept that he's going to have to wait until I know for SURE that the money is there. If he doesn't want to wait, then no sale.

 

So that should be good enough right? Just let him send the check and have my bank check and double check to make sure it's legit then I should be good? And tell him it could be like 1-4 weeks or what's a reasonable amount of time?

[Sparky]

yikes see this is why I am reluctant to do it this way. I didn't like the vibe from the guy that he is in some kinda big rush.

 

thats your first sign right there to be leery. the buyer might be trying to rush you so that you overlook something. use a real escrow company of your choice or that someone you know may have used.

 

its your car, set the terms that make you comfortable and stick with them, if the potential buyer has a problem with perfectly reasonable terms than move on. there is someone in your area that wants a turbo 240Z, you just have to be patient and find them. personally, I'm insistent that buyer see cars first, I may have overlooked something or not mention something that I don't consider a problem or big deal while the buyer may. this prevents many headaches in the future and also makes the buyer feel good about his purchase.

 

good luck man!

[Guest bastaad525]

Yeah I'm thinking this as well... I do NOT want the hassle that will come if this guy gets the car sight unseen (well pics of course) and then decided there's something he doesnt like that we didn't cover over the phone or in pictures.

 

That bill of sale that waynekarnes posted somewhat takes care of that but I need to work out a way that he HAS to sign that and return a signed copy to me. Any suggestions there?

 

Back on the money issue, is Western Union okay? I saw one person mention it and honestly was surprised it didn't occur to me.

 

Are there any risks of using Western Union to wire the cash to me?

[waynekarnes]

an electronic signature will hold up in a court of law.

 

you can email a copy and ask for a signature. you can go to kinkos or some other shop, fax a copy, have him sign and fax back.

 

if you get a written confirmation from him, filling in all the blanks that he agrees to the terms, as well as an email and a verbal over the phone, this will also hold up in court.

 

he can't say that he wasn't aware, or that you promised to repair or warrantied the car.

 

in california, as far as a private individual selling a car, it's buyer beware. he has the choice of paying a competent mechanic to check the car out. if he chooses not to do this, it is on the buyer's head.

 

the only thing that is expected of you is to be honest with your description.

 

if you were deceptive an anyway, then a court might force you to repair or refund. otherwise, the condition of the vehicle is up to the buyer to verify.

 

i'd fax it to him, get a signature. get him to fax it back.

 

use an escrow company, or as was suggested, have him wire transfer the money to a new account and close it as soon as the money arrives. can't retract it, can't mess with your account.

 

most banks will wire transfer funds, as well as western union and i think greyhound.

 

i also know that some transportation companies will make the payment when they pick up the car.

 

years back i sold a 57 nomad to buyer in new york ( i am in calif ). transport company acted as escrow company.

 

when they arrived to pick up the nomad, they paid me cash ( 100 dollar bills ) , i signed the pink. everyone was happy.

 

that was over 18 years ago, and we have been emailing every couple weeks since then.

 

my 82 cents worth of thought,

 

wayne

[Guest bastaad525]

wayne thanks for all the info. I feel more secure with all this better info.

 

Okay one thing I'm still unclear on... with western union, do I have to have the money wired directly into a bank account? And therefore have to do that temporary account thing you're talking about. Or can I just have it wired as cash and they give me the cash right there, no bank info involved? I've never used Western Union before.

 

I will tell him when he calls back tommorow to inquire with the shipping company about them about them acting as the escrow company and being able to pay me the cash up front like that. I will most likely just get the info of the shipping company from him and contact them myself as well to see what the options are.

 

Okay so... either have the money wired western union or thru my bank into a temp account if need be. Print out and fax a copy of that bill of sale to him have him sign and fax it back, and look into having the shipping company act as the escrow company and having them handle payment. I'll try to get a few more pictures for him as well and document all that stuff by sending it to him in an email so as to prove that I tried to show him every pertninent detail of the car.

 

Am I missing anything else?

[(goldfish)]

The only way my work will do business (selling computers) to someone over seas' is wire transfer to our bank. then we ship. I have seen third party check companies send us checks for the seller. Read those carefully and even call them. Some will not , and state so, assure funds are backing the check.

[waynekarnes]

hmm, typed two replies, neither posted.

 

looks good so far.

 

go to local western union, take id.

 

tell em you want to have money transferred from buyer to you.

 

set up an account. there may be fees on both ends.

 

buyer transfers funds from western union on his end to the one on your end.

 

now, he can transfer from his bank to your bank. he needs your bank account number.

 

this is why you may want to have a new account, that way in the future the buyer will not have your account number.

 

 

if the transport company will act as escrow company that would be the best.

 

 

a guy i work with sold a car to a man in norway. if i can remember, and i can catch him ( different shifts ), i will ask him how he did that.

 

i think there are suggestions on how to do a safe sale in hemmings motor news magazine. check newstands, book stores, library.

 

http://www.hemmings.com

 

i think that we have covered most points.

 

be as honest with description as possible, hope buyer is as well.

 

i wouldn't accept a cashiers check or money order, unless buyer is willing to wait for either to clear. usually 20 days.

 

i would accept a wire transfer from his bank to yours.

 

i would accept western union.

 

good luck,

 

wayne

[Guest bastaad525]

this guy really making me nervous.

 

Well he is against doing western union because he thinks to send $5000 will be a large fee. He already tried to talk me down on the price, plus he said he's looking at like $500 for shipping the car, so I can't say I blame him for trying to save a buck.

 

He seems to be pushing on the money order or personal check thing... again, making me nervous. But this isn't a problem as long as he's willing to wait for it to clear? He did ask me about that and I asked my bank, they told me 10-15 business days tops which is what I told him, and on a good note, he did not seem bothered by the prospect of waiting that long for the check to clear (easing up my suspicions a little).

 

He did get irritated when I told him I'd expect him to sign and return fax a copy of the bill of sale... there go my suspicions again Well oh well he either does it my way or not at all.

 

Wayne - Do you think it's okay that I can accept a personal check/cashiers check/money order/certified check AS LONG AS I give it plenty of time to be sure it clears and is legit? My bank assured me that they'd be able to give me a definate answer as to it's legitimacy within the 10 business days, so if he's willing to wait then so am I.

 

He did ask the delivery company about them acting as the escrow company or if he could pay them and they pay me and apparently they don't do any of that.

 

I also decided that before I sell it to him I'm going to take a LOT more pictures, and get an email dialog going back and forth with him, I want to hold on to all of that as documentation that I accurately represented the condition of the car so that as you said... if something goes wrong I'll have proof god forbid it would ever go to court. But more importantly, I just want to be sure the guy knows what he's getting... I know I would never want to buy a car sight unseen.

 

 

I wish one of you guys local to me would just save me all the hassle and just buy my damn car

[Gollum]

If he can't wait for a check/money order/ect to clear then he doesn't have a car, period. My dad recently had a check fraud issue with someone trying to buy his eclipse. Luckly they wrote the amount wrong so we HAD to fallow up on the buyer and they turned tail and ran. Police told us that it's a new wave of fraud nowdays, to send fake checks for cars since it's essencially boosting a car. The cars then go to chop shops. Now, I can't see much value in a Z, but I guess it could still happen nonetheless.

 

I'm not trying to scare you, just letting you know a piece of truth.

 

Also, if someone was interested this fast, then odds are someone else will come along in no time.

[Guest bastaad525]

nah he does seem okay with waiting for the check to clear, just wasn't too thrilled with the idea of paying a fee to western union to wire the money. But then again, neither of us even knows how much of a fee they will charge, he's assuming it's a percentage of the total transfer and will probably be a sizeable amount for $5k.

 

on the other hand, opening a new bank account strictly for the purpose of a wire transfer and then closing it immediately after seems like a bit of a hassle for me mostly because with my graveyard work schedule finding time to get down to my brand during business hours is a pain. So if I can be safe with a check/money order by simply allowing it the extra amount of time to fully clear, I"m okay with that. As long as I can be 100% safe that way.

[Mike kZ]

I don't know about California, but in Georgia when you sell a used car it's "as is" Once you pay for it, it's your problem. Just put "as is" in your bill of sale.

[VRJoe]

Put "As Is, Where Is" on the bill. That means he buys where it sits and it's up to him to get it shipped.

 

Ask your bank if they can help with a wire transfer, ask if they have a holding account for incoming transfers. They should be able to help.

 

If you're still going with the check option, ask him for a BANK CHECK. This is a check from the bank and is easier for your bank to clear. Again, ask your bank for advice as for the safest way to make this transaction.

 

- Joe

[Guest bastaad525]

Man see THIS is why I'm glad I found this forum. It seems you guys were on the right track with all these suggestions and may have just saved me from getting ripped off.

 

So in my second phone conversation with the guy I told him about these things you guys told me about... that I'd want to do a bill of sale and have him sign and return fax it, about a cash wire transfer or some other method of payment but NOT a personal check, about holding it long enough to be 100% sure it clears... all the while this guys attitude shifted from very anxious and in some big rush to get the car, to straight up defensive. And now the guy has vanished.

 

So it seems to me that maybe he WAS out to try to pull something on me and because I came to that second phone conversation armed with the good tips provided by you guys, he figured that I was too smart and wouldn't be one of his suckers and crawled back into the dirt.

 

Very nice.

 

Thanks guys... I'm lucky to have you guys as such a great base of information about all kinds of subjects, not just Z's, and I strongly feel that you guys have just saved me a lot of grief.

 

only problem for me now is that i"m back to not having a buyer for my car

[waynekarnes]

asked my friend at work how the buyer paid for the lincoln ( not that it matters, but it wasn't his 4 door vert, rather a 67 mark hard top ).

 

the guy used pay pal and paid the fees, paid with a credit card.

 

my friend went to pay pal transferred the funds to his checking account. he has two at his bank.

 

 

 

if the buyer wants to pay with a personal check and is willing to wait for the check to clear, find out from your bank manager, not a clerk, how many days to verify the check is real and the money is real.

 

a friend of friend took a bank check ( cashier's check, depending on what part of the usa you are in ) as payment on a musical instrument. 15 days after he had already deposited and spent the money, bank came after him, said was fake check, that he owed them the money.

 

his argument was, he trusted them to verify the check was valid. in turn they said that the bank it was drawn on honored the check, and then found out it was either from stolen blanks or a forgery. that bank wanted the money back, so his bank would get it from him.

 

raw deal, but those with money make the rules.

 

go to your bank and see what the fees are for a wire transfer. the fees are pretty much universal. for your peace of mind, might be worth eating the fees yourself, deduct em from the price of the car.

 

explain to your banker, with all the identity theft going on you are afraid to give out your acc # to a stranger and want to know if there is a way to do this. the bank may have an account they use just for this purpose.

 

leg work for sure, but should make it easier to sleep.

 

i would feel alright about a personal check, if buyer would be willing to wait the amount of time the bank manager says would be appropriate and prudent.

 

i've sold maybe 3 to 4 grand of stuff on ebay, for myself and friends.

 

i have never been ripped off selling ( twice buying, one guy is in jail electronic fraud division of the fbi , the other was for a buck 50, seller suckered a bunch of us for gensing knifes ).

 

most people paid with pay pal. others cashier or personal checks. all checks waited 20 days for me to ship.

 

again, if buyer is willing to wait the 20 or so days the bank manager says is the safe period, take the personal check.

 

but, i see no reason for buyer not to do an electronic transfer from his bank to you. again check with your bank manager for more info on this, don't take buyer's word for this info.

 

and you want to put, as is, where is on the bill of sale/contract.

 

if he doesn't want to bother with a fax machine, send it to him in a prestamped self addressed envelope. you want that bill of sale with his name and signature.

 

on both ends, the state is going to want a bill of sale of some sort, stating purchase price, date of sale, ect.

 

you need it for your own protection.

 

99% of the time, buyer is just like you, wants a clean honest deal.

 

but even then things can go wrong. wife gets rattled, doesn't like the car, he wants money back to save his face with the wife. he makes up some crap about something being wrong. takes you to small claims. with a bill of sale/contract all that nonsense goes out the window.

 

stick by your guns on that bill of sale. no bill of sale, no sell !

 

i have owned and sold over 40 cars since 1973. all of em had a bill of sale. i was threated by an attorney that was upset that i sold his 18 yr old son and his wife a 65 GTO. was too fast for the kid.

 

free attorney advice at local jr college. showed him bill of sale, parties over 18, can enter into legal binding contract. besides, in state of california, bill of sale or no bill of sale, as long as not a blatent rip off, it is buyer beware.

 

called the father/attorney back, told him that my personal attorney has adviced me to tell father/attorney to blow it out his backside ( actually the attorney at jr college did indeed say just that, only he was a bit more colorful) .

 

that is the only one i ever had trouble with.

 

kid stopped by my house weeks later, said i had completely shut his dad down, 1st time ever that his dad hadn't gotten his way just by threatening people. kid was stoked, loved the car ( 65 gto, 3 2's, 4 speed, 67k miles on it. it was beautiful. i paid $250 for it in 76, sold it for $550. be a 20 grand car now ). sorry off topic, i am blathering.

 

wayne

[waynekarnes]

wow, i type 2 words a minute.

 

you posted how buyer vanished while i was typing my last reply.

 

glad you didn't get ripped off !

 

you are so right.

 

this group is like a bunch of old and trusted friends.

 

sometimes it reminds me of when i was able to call my favorite uncle ( sorry to say he passed away, he was pulling weeds. didn't know it was on under his nails, cat poop got into a mosquito bite he scratched, month later, after his leg was amputated, he died a painful death. not to bring any one down, cat scat is nasty, wash your hands ).

 

anyway back to happy stuff, this group is like when i'd call my uncle, ask for car advise.

 

not only get mechanical advise, but sound economic and social advise as well.

 

everyone, give yourself a pat on the back !

 

wayne

[Guest bastaad525]

I'm really pissed though... to think this guy was even THINKING of trying to rip me off for MY BABY, you know?? It's hard enough that I'm even trying to sell it, much as most of me really would rather keep it, but then to think someone was actually basically going to try to STEAL the car from me.... I'd burn a guys house down while he watched for that... not my Z, man...

 

So yeah... thanks for the advice guys I'd never have thought of all this stuff and if not for you guys would probably be out a car and $5000 within the week....