wheelman Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 We've started looking for a car for my daughter, she just turned 16. She's expressed interest in learning how to work on cars and also in Auto-X which I really want to encourage. Keeps her away from the young guys who just want to get down her pants. We ran across a 1990 Plymouth Laser turbo that needs a new head and exhaust manifold and who knows what else. It can't be driven (the head has been removed). The guy wants $900.00 for it and I found a head local that I can get for $250.00 The car is is in relatively good shape from what I can tell but I think it has been driven hard. So what do you guys think, should I make this thing my next project car to rebuild with the daughter or should I avoid it? Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Battle Pope Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Do some research on them. They're one of the bastard co-projects that Mitsu/Chrysler put out. They're called DSM's (Diamond Star Motors). The 3000GT/Dodge Stealth, Chrysler Conquest/Mitsu Starion, Laser/Eclipse/Talon, they're all DSMs. That 1990 will undoubtedly have a 4G63T engine. They can be built to make nice numbers, but as you will find out in your research the DSM 4G63T has... reliability problems. Ever heard of crankwalk? You will if you get this car. It does sound to me like it's had the stuffing beaten out of it. 900 dollars is an awful lot for a non-running DSM, even if it's a turbo. If you're going to bother with DSMs at all, stick to the Turbo All Wheel Drive ones. Even those have the crankwalk and transmission problems. Chances are, if it's got a wasted head and exhaust manifold, it's well on it's way to crankwalk and you'll have to completely rebuild it not too far down the road. My recommendation: Get her a Honda. I know, I know. Think of it this way. She's interested in autocross. Pick her up a '90-'95 Hatchback. Doesn't matter what trim as long as it's a 5-speed. Mileage doesn't matter either. If you're fortunate you can find one that someone's getting rid of for a new car. As with anything, don't buy one that a kid has owned and beaten on. Get it as close to stock as possible. Heck, I picked up a 1991 base trim hatchback a couple of weeks ago for 1200 dollars in good running/driving condition. It gets 40+ mpg in town, and I pay 126 dollars a month for full coverage insurance (I'm 20). You said she's interested in Autocross and working on cars. Hondas are very easy cars to get into autocross and working on. Just look on ebay: the cheapest parts are always Honda parts. The nice thing about the Hondas from the '90s is that they were built with competent suspension design. They handle quite well from the factory. You can have a very competent autocrosser with nothing more than some bolt-on parts like intake/header/exhaust and a good set of shocks and springs. Tires help too of course. For a first car, I will time and again recommend a Honda. I don't think I'd rather have anything else for a daily driver. Very reasonable on insurance, and downright cheap on gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusPuppis Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 If you go DSM, dont pay 900 for one that doesnt run, lol. Also, crankwalk was a major problem from 94-97. The 1st gens dont really have the problem at all. Atleast not in any majoy capacity. The *best* one to look for is a 92 AWD Turbo model. Eclipse GSX or Talon TSi. I honestly dont know if the Lasers were ever available in an AWD model. Those have the 4 bolt motor and the best rear end of the bunch. Both from a gearing and strength strandpoint. DSM's are good little cars. They drive pretty well and as stated, can make some nice numbers. If I were ever looking for a good sport compact to pick up on a budget to build as a DD or whatever a DSM would be it. They do indeed have reliability issues. They also suffer from being a damndable pain in the *** to work on. The engine bay is extremely cramped. The biggest problems with them are the trannys and inability to idle worth a damn. If you get one that doesnt have a new or rebuilt transmission and 3rd gear isnt already going out - be prepared, cause its on the way. The crank walk issue is highly overstated on them all though. The poeple seeing it were in freak circumstances or poeple makeing alot alot of power. Generally, if you find one thats past 100k, if it was gonna happen, it would have already. The cars are ok handlers but really, they seem more drag racers to me. Their deceptively heavy to be so damn small (something like 3200pds dry and no driver). Might be 3400.. Dont remember exactly. Either way, nice car. If shes interested in Auto-X though, why not look into something like a Miata? I'll admit I dont know alot about them, but I know their supposed to be fantastic road course cars and a real blast to drive. Ive heard turbo kits are becoming more plentiful as well, so getting one to kick some some horses wouldnt be too difficult either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b__sosick Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I gotta go with battle pope on this one. This dsm sounds reeeeeeal risky. If you absolutely must buy a dsm, at least get an awd gsx/tsi. These cars have huge aftermarkets and potential, but reliability is always an issue with them. Pope's honda idea isn't bad, either. they are a great car to begin with. HUGE, cheap after market, and great potential. Sure, you won't get quad digit horsepower numbers out of them, but with a few bolt ons (maybe even a turbo kit?) some beefier tires/brakes/suspension, shed have a helluva time on the track. I'd also suggest a miata, but they are waaaay more expensive than hondas and don't have half the aftermarket that hondas have. Anywho, kudos to you for having a daughter that's into cars! Hopefully I can raise my baby sis to be a gear head Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240ZR Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 BEST thing i can tell you is wht my Guy always tells me, wait till the end of the season, find some one that is quitting or upgrading and buy taht car, that way you get a can you know meets the Regs. if this isnt an option 2nd thing is to take her out to an event and let her see whats winning and what she likes... I know this sound stupid, but I was Pissed at my dad for a long time for getting me CRX when i wanted was a RX-7..... and blamed him for every loose i got saying, "You know if i had that Rotery I would of had a little more power to shave some time off," or "You know that car number XX is a Rx-7 and he beat my time....." (shh I was only 17 and didnt know it was me and not the car.....) Meh I lost my point.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 As far as I know crankwalk only applied to the second gen cars... first gen cars seemed to have been built better all around, actually, from talking to a lot of DSM owning friends. I've always liked the cars, always loved the styling of the 2nd gens and almost bought one but was talked out of it. I think they are buggy cars 1st OR second gen, lots of little issues, not unlike what guys run into with L28ET 240 Z's BUT, they can make a LOT of power for NOT a lot of money invested. I think the DSM is the great granddaddy of going fast for cheap, at least as far as imports go. Some of our favorite turbo mods, like the $10 grainger boost controller... a lot of stuff like that came from DSM guys first. 1st gen DSM BOV's are also a great piece that find their way onto lots of turbo Z's and other cars Well... she says she wants to learn to work on cars... that DSM will be a learning experience, if nothing else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonsZ Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 A Second Gen RX7, a first gen Z a second gen Z a third gen Z any Z really and maybe you could get her a Z, pick one up yourself too? My brother-in-law had one (a chrysler lazer), it nearly went down in a blaze of glory when the fuel hose broke and sprayed fuel all over a hot engine! when I poped the hood (like an 18-yr-old idiot I was at the time) there it was boiling gasoline on the intake manifold! I closed the hood slowly and stepped away. nothing happened I waited till it cooled and themn replaced the hose and when I was changing the oil (I have no idea why I was so helpful!) I noticed that 2 bolts were missing attaching the engine to the trans. Was it AWD? I can't remember, it wouldn't peal out and it was a stick, but needless to say I didn't like it after I noticed the missing bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240ZR Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 A Second Gen RX7' date='a first gen Z a second gen Z a third gen Z any Z really and maybe you could get her a Z, pick one up yourself too? .[/quote'] Rx-7 is a fun car, but then she learns rotery, who the hell really needs to know how to tare down a Wankle? I belive the ONLY awd Where the Talon TSI, Eclipse GSX, 3000GT VR-4, Galant VR-4 (I forget what market got this modle name), and maye one other that i cant think of... There might of been a Eclispe vr-4 but it was just an GSX with a differant name badge...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I'd go with a honda hatch. One of my favorite mags is bestmotoring, and they're a video mag based out of japan. By far one of the most unbiased resources on japanese cars. They recently did a shootout here in the US for the first time. An EG civic hatch beat the crap out of many of the cars there and made everyone else look like a joke. An evo that was supposed to run was having problems (head gasket i think) an so they randomly asked a civic owner there if he wanted to enter his car. Find out later he drove all the way to socal from chicago and his muffler fell off mid trip! The owner built the car himself and showed that a well thought out home built EG can give some of the best shops a run for thier money who have much more expensive cars with more money invested. This episode changed the way I view FF racing. http://www.bestmotoringvideo.com/movies/vol21_wmv.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 How many of us wrecked their first car? Ok, so I see most of you have your hands up. Safe car, like a '72 Caddy deville with an L28 engine and automatic. JK!! DSM's, the 6 bolt motor is better than the 7 bolt motor from what I've heard. Crank walk is clutch installation problem that causes the thrust to wipe out, buddy has one, so I've heard all the horror stories. I'd lean towards a car that she'd be safe in first. Personally I'd buy her a truck, regular cab, 6 cyl, 5 speed. Besides, if she still has it when she goes to college, she can move her stuff alot easier. JMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted October 22, 2005 Author Share Posted October 22, 2005 Thanks for the feedback guys. I had doen some research before posting the question so I knew about the crank walk issue and that it isn't supposed to affect this year DSM. Lauryn (my daughter) and I have decided to pas on it and keep looking. The more we thought about it and added up the cost to get it in good running order it just wasn't worth it. As for the suggestions: Miata and RX-7 are definitely out as is any other Z right now. I really don't want to rebuild another Z right now and she doesn't have the money or time to do it right. Not to mention that insurance cost is an issue. She originally wanted a full size 4x4 truck but after driving our van she has decided wants a smaller car. Besides a 2 wheel drive trucks suck in winter weather and 4x4s are not allowed in Auto-X. I ran across a 1992 Mazda MX-6 DX today thats in good shape but has high miles (188,000). I'm going to take her to look at it tomorrow. If she likes it then we start negotiating. They're asking $1650.00 for it but I think I can get it down to about $1200.00. Let you know how it goes. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b__sosick Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 240zr PLEASE spell rotary right, for once in your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 I'm actually not against the MX-6 idea. Good cars all around. Probly lots of untapped potential since it's so uncommon (seems to me at least) in motorsports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 I've heard similar things with the crankwalk and reliablility problems, that they apply mostly to 94 and up, i never knew the reason for it though. I've heard of plenty reliability problems on the 2gens, but nuthin on the firt gens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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