t-tom Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 I did a search and did not find an answer. I am looking at an intercooler that is 26L x 12H x 4W With 3 inch inlet / outlet. The website says it is good to 1000hp and leak down tested to 30psi. I want the Z to put down in the 450-550hp range @ the wheels. Is this too big and what would the side effects of a big intercooler be? Good & Bad. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BirdmanZ Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 it depends on how much boost youre looking to run in order to achieve your hp goal. obviously running 30 psi is going to heat the air more than running 10 psi. too large an intercooler might result in a little more lag time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-tom Posted December 15, 2005 Author Share Posted December 15, 2005 I thought I would run 14-19 on the street and 19-25 at the strip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myplasticegg Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Most people that i know will tell you to not go any thicker then 3" after this, the heat that was removed from the first 3 inches won't cool the fourth inch enough to make it worth it. Check out the spearco 1080cfm, it is about $500 and should be good for your application http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zguy36 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 I am currently running a medium sized Isuzu NPR intercooler and think it is too big. I am running 15psi on a T3/T4 hyrbid. I regularly drive the car hard for half hour stints on back roads and haven't seen any problems with high intake temps. If I pull over and feel the intercooler core, the hot side is almost too hot to touch and the cold side is ambient. Feeling the core, it is only hot for about two inches across then is back to ambient. Big intercoolers look nice, but aren't always a necessity. -jeremy- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Jeremy, not sure exactly what point you are trying to make. A medium NPR is not too big for your turbo/boost level. What you describe is exactly what an I/C should be doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zguy36 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Scottie, The point I was trying to make is that there is a diminished return as you make your intercooler bigger and bigger. I am very pleased with this setup. With a much smaller intercooler setup, the entire core will get warm during long boost runs. With mine, only parts of the intercooler get warm, and most of it doesn't get any warmer than ambient. Heat is transfered when there is a temperature gradient between two parts and this grows exponentially as that temperature gradient changes. If over half of my intercooler is ambient temperature during a long boost run, then that portion of the intercooler is not transferring much heat. It is a case of competing equations. Smaller intercooler gives less restriction and a larger intercooler gives more temperature drop. In my case, 20% of the intercooler is warm and the other 80% is near ambient. Yes it is functioning properly, but might be a bit bigger than is needed. -jeremy- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 You make good points particularly in the fact that most of the cooling is done within the 1st 6" or the tubes. I experienced some serious pressure drop when I hit about 400rwhp and that was with the BIG NPR so the medium is just fine for what you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffp Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 The idea of is there to big an intercooler, well not really, better stated is there to big a cooler for the application, yes. The intercooler will be more efficient and drop less psi of boost the bigger it is, meaning you have 15psi at the turbo outlet, and 13psi at the throttle plate, disregarding the tubing size for this exercise, you are developing 2 psi opposition to flow through the Ic, the cooler could be cooling the air charge most effectively, but because of the cooler makeup, it creates a backpressure on the turbo actual folw. So the bigger flowing cooler will have better/less pressure drop across the core, is it needed, maybe maybe not. The major consideration is size of the cooler and if you can get the thing in your car, if the cooler will not fllow efficently the CFM required for the application, will the turbo be able to overcome the flow loss to the engine to give you the flow you want. If your turbo can do that, and the cooler is still effective in cooling the air I say use the smallest unit you can to save space. Realize, that you will be very hard pressed to come up with an application that is perfect, so work to minimize the losses so that the turbo can provide enough flow in CFM for your application, and a cooler that will still cool the air over extended use. Hope that makes since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nitr0 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 I had this arguement with a very knowledgable tech guy at work, apparently (so i'm told), having an intercooler on there actually INCREASES boost? How? Because when you cool air your making it smaller, therefore, more air in a smaller space. So 15psi of HOT air is the same as 12-13psi of COOL air, technically the psi isnt increased, but the amount of compressed air in the same space is more. In theory an engine running 15psi without a cooler should have the same power at 13psi with an intercooler, just on the basis its pumping the same volume of air. Just what i'm told.... Which basically backs jeffp's theory that if your turbo can push enough air into a large cooler, your really not losing any power at all.... The problem is, he told me all this stuff whilst trying to convince me NOT to put a FMIC onto my N/A L28 -> turbo conversion, F54 Block and N42 Head. So it took a while for me to get it, althought i still disagree with him, and will get an intercooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 The intercooler will be more efficient and drop less psi of boost the bigger it is' date='[/quote'] Woh there cowboy. Thats not strictly true. The cooler will have less resistance to flow as thickness and height are increased, for a given fin/plate specification. Think about the area the air is seeing, it increases as these increase hence the restriction to flow decreases. If you make it wider you increase the restriction as the air has to travel farther in its restricted form. Its always a compromise between better cooling, and better flow. nitr0, It does not increase boost as boost is a measure of pressure above atmosphere. It does increase air density, which is what actually makes power. Someone told you NOT to get a FMIC on a turbo car? Did they have a reason that didn't involve banned substances? Dave Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z Turbo Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 I had this arguement with a very knowledgable tech guy at work, apparently (so i'm told), having an intercooler on there actually INCREASES boost? How? Because when you cool air your making it smaller, therefore, more air in a smaller space. So 15psi of HOT air is the same as 12-13psi of COOL air, technically the psi isnt increased, but the amount of compressed air in the same space is more. Remember, pressure is created by the resistance to flow. Answer to your question, you are limited to what you can shove in front of the early z so I don't think you will find something that is too big. It may be overkill, but not too big. The downside is the ability to flow air to the radiator to keep the car cool. I have put several large coolers on Z cars and here are some pics. 28"x8"x3" 20"x7"x5.5" 24"x12"x4.5"(Joel's Car) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Here is a cool write-up on intercoolers. http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm The article says, "yes" an intercooler can be too big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nitr0 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 thehelix112 - oh good i wasnt too far off then, i knew there was something going on - DENSITY was the word i was looking for. If you ever see a fact sheet on top fuel drag cars, it says that the air/fuel mixture is so dense, that its almost the texture of putty when its slammed into the combustion chamber! The guy who told me was my boss, so i dont beleive there was any illegal substances invloved, not even beer that time of day. He knows suspension, but obviously not forced induction technology which is ok, I'll make the car fast, he can make it stick to the road Pyro that link is very informative i havent left the site since i saw it - they are aussie too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 I brought my cooler from ARE. They definitely know their stuff but aren't the cheapest place on the planet. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Never too big!! oh yeah its 4" thick. But really kidding aside you should check out corky bell's book on how to turbo charge your car, he explains alot of stuff in there, it shoudl answer jsut about all your turbo question. Good bit is detail on how to pick the right size i/c. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zguy36 Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Just finished putting in the megasquirt and thought I would see what kind of temperature rise I was getting with my medium sized NPR cooler. At 15psi through first, second and third gear, the intake air temps rose from 62F to 68F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Remember' date=' pressure is created by the resistance to flow. Answer to your question, you are limited to what you can shove in front of the early z so I don't think you will find something that is too big. It may be overkill, but not too big. The downside is the ability to flow air to the radiator to keep the car cool. I have put several large coolers on Z cars and here are some pics. 28"x8"x3" [img']http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~jthagard/prewreck/image17.jpg[/img] 20"x7"x5.5" 24"x12"x4.5"(Joel's Car) I love seeing your work, it inspires me! I heard that having the outlet directly across from the inlet on an intercooler isn;t as good as one that has them diagonally across from each other? Something like the cooling isn't as effective furthest from the inlet (on the inlet side)? You're only using X% of the IC, is this true? Makes tubing fitment a pain I bet... Quick question, what hoses do you use to join the radiator tubing? Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z Turbo Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Quick question' date=' what hoses do you use to join the radiator tubing?Owen[/quote'] http://www.turbohoses.com Ask for Hoover and tell him you are a Zcar guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Awesome, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.